S2E4 The Technocratic Blueprint with Joshua Stylman

They've been feeding us these lies Since the day that we were born That we need them to protect us That we can't survive alone But baby, that's a fallacy A chain around us Been blinded by their promises While freedom's been denied, oh Critical thinking broke these chains Opened up my eyes to see the game No

need for rulers telling me my worth I'm taking back the power that is mine The truth has set me free at last.

Government ain't nothing but a cycle. Heading toward tyranny. They militarize the police force. While preaching about democracy But fuck that noise I see the truth now Their power's built on fear Voluntary systems show Another world

I'm taking back the power that is mine by birth This fallacious belief in their control Has been weighing down my goddamn soul But I'm free at last, free at last Breaking out of their system fast No, no taxation stealing Unbreakable soul

My story Lines of code can't hold my dreams Tears fall like broken promises Tears fall like broken promises

Break these chains They track my every movement Farting, they can own my pain But my spirit is a wildfire Watching me break these chains One that sounds like... Contained, hurry the ramp. But my shielding is a wildfire, fire.

I am unbreakable myself. Unbreakable! My smiling anger uncontrolled. Watching me break these chains. I am unbreakable My soul burns by your tender control One break up, we're only whispers Unbreakable

Welcome back to The Aaron Day Show. This is season two, episode four. We have a tremendous guest today, Joshua Stileman, who I've gotten to know over the last year through the Brownstone Institute. And we instantly hit it off and started having conversations until like two or three o'clock in the morning on a whole variety of different topics. And so very excited about this conversation today and hope that if you're not already following Josh, that you will shortly. But before I get into that, I want to go through just a few housekeeping things. I'm going to make this somewhat short because I want to make sure that we spend enough time engaged in meaningful discussion. Just to let you know,

the next event's coming up. I'll be speaking at ETH Dam in Amsterdam, May the ninth through the eleventh. which is a very, even though it says ETH, it's actually very much a free markets and privacy oriented event. And so I'm very excited about this. I've actually been told this is one of, if not the best crypto conference by Joel Valenzuela, which actually means quite a bit to me. So if you want to head out to Amsterdam, that'll be a good event. Also, Porkfest is coming up June the sixteenth through the twenty second. I'm actually co-sponsoring the largest tent at Porkfest along with Doug Tooman at Mineratopia. So we are going to have a huge tent that can hold probably fifty or so people.

And the entire week is going to be focused on practical solutions with a focus and an emphasis on privacy. But we're certainly going to touch on some other areas and hopefully Josh will actually speak. We get some other folks to speak on a variety of topics kind of related to privacy and the need for solutions outside of the system. But if you're not familiar with Porkfest, Porkfest is probably the largest Liberty gathering now in the United States. It's depending upon the year, it's anywhere between two to three thousand attendees. And what's particularly interesting about Porkfest to me, I'm now I'm a free stater and I have been since two thousand and nine and for a

chair of the Free State Project. while was actually the But so many people learned about cryptocurrency and about Bitcoin from Porkfest all the way back in twenty twelve. I learned about Bitcoin from Roger Ver. In fact, But at Porkfest, I've met Eric Voorhees. I met Vitalik before he even started Ethereum. And one of the fascinating things about Porkfest is in addition to hundreds of talks on any of a number of different topics, There's an area called Agoura Valley. So basically for the entire week, people are buying and selling food and various products and services from one another. And nobody uses fiat currency. So this is really an onboarding event. And this is where a lot of

people started using Bitcoin for the first time. And for this Porkfest, we're really going to be focusing on privacy coins. And I will say last year, privacy coins kind of were dominating. I'd say Monero and Zano and people were also using Goldbacks. And so I'm hoping we can renew the spirit of kind of twenty twelve with Porkfest. This is when people were actually interested in finding solutions to central banks and central bank tyranny and all of the wars all over the world and separating money and state. That was the original spirit of crypto. And a lot of that was born at Porkfest. So I'm hoping we're going to bring it back. So if you've ever been or you haven't been,

I actually encourage you to come this year. This year is going to be phenomenal. And who knows, we might have Ross Ulbrich there. And if Roger and Ian are free, I bet they'll be there as well. I'll go into this more. There are some interesting developments going on on the privacy coin front. There will be some announcements or actually some deployments this month. Zeno will be integrated into the Bitcoin.com wallet, which will give access to millions of new potential customers and potential users. Confidential Layer is supposed to Also, launch by the end of this month. And Confidential Layer allows you to take your Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash and Ethereum and bridge it into Zeno so that

you can make these transparent blockchains private, scalable and fungible. So this is actually a pretty big deal and one of many use cases for privacy tokenization. And so keep your eye out for that, because I think this is going to help address some of the huge pain points with those transparent blockchains. One other event you should be aware of is Roger Ver has a motion to dismiss hearing on May the twelfth at one thirty in L. A. At the U. S. District Court. information as we get closer to the date I'll send out more If you don't normally go to court hearings, which unfortunately I've become in the habit of doing, understand that most of these,

they often get rescheduled for a variety of reasons. It can be on the prosecution side, the defense side, or it's in LA. So it could be a natural disaster or anything else. It is important to show up for these things, not only to show support for Roger, but to show the U.S. government that, you know, just as with Ross, we're not going to let this issue go away. We're going to continue to keep it elevated in the minds of the public. And so but I do recommend if you're going to go to get refundable plane tickets and refundable hotel tickets, because again, There's a chance that it'll be rescheduled and actually it would be my hope that this case even gets dismissed before then.

But in any event, I wanted to flag that. I have been doing, this is my second podcast this week. My goal is to do one a week and I've gotten behind because I've been traveling. I've actually only been home four days out of the last month. So I'm trying to get caught up. So I'm going to start doing two a week until we get caught up. Next week, I'm going to do one dedicated to stopping Biden crypto lawfare. If you check out the Brownstone Institute, my latest article goes into this. I think we need a movement similar to the way Trump handled the J Sixers, where in the end he decided to just pardon all fifteen reviewing them on a case by case basis. hundred instead of

With the Biden crypto lawfare, Trump rescinded Biden's executive order for one four zero six seven, which is what caused all of this mess, all of the debunking All of these people that are looking at prison sentences, everything involved with crypto exchanges, all of that stemmed from this executive order. While he has rescinded the executive order, he has not rescinded the effects of the executive order. And so there are dozens of people facing still the draconian consequences of this executive order. So this is a big focus area of mine, and I want to go over it in detail next week. And then next Thursday... I'm going to do a talk which will correspond with a new article I'm writing for

Brownstone on the fact that, and this is very unfortunate, people are complacent now. They think that because Trump said no CVDCs that we're out of the woods. And what I will say is it couldn't be further from the truth. The best way I can describe it is this. Biden was really good at lawfare And his executive order had two parts, authorizing the CBDC and then cracking down on crypto. And the reason for the crackdown on crypto is to remove the competition to roll out of CBDC. Well, he did a great job on the lawfare part. He destroyed or almost destroyed large swaths of the crypto industry. But he didn't make any movement. And in part, aren't capable on actually it's because these people

deploying a CBDC. The problem is the Trump administration is now pushing for stablecoins. Our new crypto AI czar is pushing this as a big strategy. And once you dig into this, you'll actually find out that even going back to the first Trump administration, There are all kinds of interconnections with USDC, all kinds of ties with Tether. And there are two new bills that have been put forward, one in the House called the Stable Act and one in the Senate called the Genius Act. And you can't make this up, but when you read these, what you will find is they are basically going to give control of stable coins to the largest commercial banks. It's going to be regulated by the Federal Reserve.

It's going to be programmable. It's going to be trackable. It's going to be sensible. In essence, these are backdoor CBDCs. And unlike the Biden administration, the people pushing this are lizards from Silicon Valley that actually have the capacity to push this stuff through. So in many respects, we are worse off on the actual deployment of programmable digital currency. And I want to walk through that with everyone because my job has become a thousand times more difficult because most people are just now not even paying attention to this, thinking that CBDCs are dead. I encourage you to check out daylightfreedom.org I've redone the site and it kind of lists the the main areas

that I'm focusing on which is still teaching people about how to exit fiat and I'm really ramping up the workshops which I'm going to try to make more online but still have an in-person component to it to help onboard merchants and onboard individual consumers. Also focusing on this ending Biden lawfare, which is absolutely critical. The reason my wife and I actually started Daylight Freedom Foundation was not having anything to do with any of this, technocracy, CBDCs, or anything else. The original purpose of this was actually to work on creating an environment to help people raise their consciousness. I'll do a separate episode on that. But in twenty nineteen, before COVID even hit,

You know, we were focused. I was doing meditation retreats. I was going and doing a I actually kind of went through it. whole bunch of stuff. I don't know if you want to call it a midlife crisis or whatever, but I kind of realized everything was bullshit before COVID and started really going down a lot of different rabbit holes. And the conclusion that we came to is that, people need to become awake and you know, get out of their... pattern behavior if we're going to be able to move forward. And I ended up focusing on CBDCs and technocracy because I actually saw technocracy as being a threat to free will itself. And I think free will is a primary component of

your ability to make choices, good or bad, Of consciousness, and learn from those choices. I think that's a key part of consciousness. And technocracy is the antithesis of this. Technocracy is about imposing and making decisions for you by, you know, scientific experts and engineers as determined by the elite. So that's what kind of. got me into where we are right now and actually leads in a bit to the topic today. But I am going to start moving more on some of the consciousness stuff as well, because one of the things that I realized is if people don't wake up, if people remain caught in these patterns, Republican versus Democrat, thinking the political system is the way out,

we are going to be hopelessly stuck. So you'll hear more from me about that. There are a couple of podcasts that are related to what we're going to be talking to today that I hope you revisit. I had a great podcast with Mark Passio and Michael Rechtenwald about the globalist plan to enslave digital cage and the humanity by twenty forty five. And what was interesting about this podcast is it covered two different angles. uh rechtenwald covered kind of the exoteric angle where kind of looking at the world economic forum and and some of these globalist institutions and how that works and mark passe was a fascinating character who really took the esoteric side so what's even behind

those organizations and mark mark used to be a satanist he was uh under levee I think he was uh a priest or whatever that concept was there and he broke free from that. And so for the last seventeen years, he's been trying to wake people up about this esoteric stuff. So I think all of this kind of feeds in and hopefully we'll be having more conversations and so forth. you should check out episode thirteen Also, from last year's Sterling Lujan. who is fascinating. And this is actually a big area of research and focus for me because we talk about the problems a lot, but I'm actually really more interested in the solutions. How do we get our way out of this? emerging area of network

And so there's this whole states where people are forming communities of interest and shared values, and then actually going out and trying to buy sovereignty and create their own geopolitical structures. And so Sterling is at the middle of this in a variety of ways in providing technological tools for network states, and then also in providing best practices so that network states can learn from other projects and other initiatives. interesting way to go. I think this is a really I get to intersect with Sterling quite often at different events throughout the world at this point. He and I are sharing a lot of information and I hope to bring this concept of network states to people.

I want to move into talking about Josh. So with that said, I won't go too much into his I mean, background here. I'll let him talk a little bit about that. But I encourage you to check out his articles at the Brownstone Institute. I mean, at this point, he's actually one of the most prolific And then if you actually want to go even beyond that, check out his sub stack at styleman.substack.com. There's great information. And some of this, if you really want to push the boundaries and kind of get outside of your comfort zone, I highly recommend his sub stack. So with that said, I'll bring Josh on. Hey, Josh, can you hear me? How are you? I can. How are you? I'm well. Thanks. Good.

Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for coming on. I wanted to do this for a while, and you and I have had conversations that go on for hours and hours and hours, so I'm sure we'll have plenty to talk about. I really enjoyed all your articles, but I enjoyed the most recent article that you wrote about the technocratic blueprint, and I think that technocracy is just now finally starting to go, I wouldn't say mainstream, but it's certainly... moving into maybe early adopter phase instead of being a kind of a niche niche area. And so I certainly want to talk about this, but I, we can talk about a whole variety of different things as well, but since this is your

first time on the show and I, and I hope, I hope you'll be kind of a regular on this given, uh, all the rabbit holes you're uncovering. Uh, do you want to just give a quick background of, you know, kind of who you are, what, what your life was like before working on, and writing about these types of uh, topics and, uh, Uh, just how, how you got here. Sure. Um, I, I was a tech dude for, I think as you were, uh, for a couple of decades, um, mostly small stage startups, mostly in and around the search engine business, um, which eventually became the social media business. So I saw kind of the formative years of the web in the nineties, early two thousands. Um, I.

had kind of, I kind of saw a bunch of the surveillance state creeping in and, sort of with snowed revelations you know, and whatnot, decided I wanted to do something totally different. It's something a bit more analog, um, and something in my community. And sort of the intersection of those two things I decided was a brewery to do a physical product in a place where people congregate the neighborhood I lived in. And it was a really great project, um, for a while until COVID for a bunch of reasons, um, assault on small business. in part because of the And then we had a good journey. I won't get into the whole thing, but pivoted to be an e-commerce company for twenty twenty.

I was super proud of the team and being a part of that and kind of saved everyone's jobs, made it to the other side. And then I'd never been wronger about anything in my life. I was like, oh, the roaring twenties. Now we're going to expand. We're going to do great stuff. And then obviously the money printing came You know, to a head and people started to feel that. But more importantly, vaccine mandates came to my city, which was Brooklyn, New York. I won't get into the whole thing, but I spoke out against the mandates. I was canceled publicly in my community, which was awesome. I knew enough at that point to know that I was right about, certainly about the Nuremberg Code being

enforced at a minimum, but about the mRNA shots being something other than what we were being sold. And I, so I guess to your, directly to your question, in about, I, me and like my oldest friend started a little study group and it was originally just a bunch of concerned parents looking at mRNA and trying to understand it. And Before no time, we got into CBDC, and once we started hearing that there were going to be mandates, we're like, oh, this is how they're going to roll this out. It's under the guise of safety, because why would anyone sign up for CBDC otherwise? And then we just kept pulling the strings and realizing that the world that we thought we lived in may, in fact,

have been an illusion the whole time. And we can get into more detail on what that means the conversation. throughout the course of I will say that I thought I was an awake person. before four or five years ago. You know, I believe like the kind of the usual conspiracy theories, you know, JFK, food pyramid, Iraq war, that sort of thing. But I didn't understand sort of the crux of how much of our consciousness is just completely manipulated every single day through every facet of, you know, the algorithmic world and tech to the entertainment world, to a whole bunch of other things. So I won't go on and on with a preamble about sort of me and my journey, but that's probably a

pretty compressed version. And I've spent probably eighteen months with my jaw just wide open. No, no way, no way. And once you, I guess, once you start connecting the pieces together like Legos, you start to look at this mountain of receipts. And at some point, these can't possibly be all coincidence, And we can get into more right? specifics about what that means. But at some point, we all have to rely more on pattern recognition than maybe we previously have and maybe be a little more discerning about what it is that we hear in public and who the messengers are and those sorts of things. Yep. one thing I thought was interesting Well, is I think you have a photographic memory for

faces or whatever. And I guess we actually met at some point in the late nineties out in Silicon Valley, which I thought was hilarious, actually. Yeah, for anyone listening, Aaron and I met in person at a Brownstone thing and we were having a few drinks and I knew he looked familiar and we got talking about our backgrounds and I room at the same time, think we were in the same twenty-five years ago. Yeah, that's just wild. So I think part of this, so you and I often, I mean, at these events, we're kind of pushing the envelope of this. I mean, there's, you know, people become awake at various phases. I mean, nobody's completely awake, but, there are a lot of people that you know,

woke up because of COVID, but I think that there's this clamoring to going back to the way things were were before COVID with the assumption that the way things were before COVID was actually normal. And actually, I see this a lot. find frustrating about RFK, for instance, This is one of the things I is I'll see him write something about, we want to restore confidence in our well, institutions. Restore confidence in our institutions. If you actually go back and study public health, or if you study any of these organizations what I like to do is less focus on the data about what's going on right now and more go back to looking at where did these things start what is the history who was

involved at the very beginning what was the initial intent and my experience so far has been that there hasn't been a golden age for any of this stuff it's just that the propaganda was more controlled there were you know three tv stations for instance and so that all of the messaging was coordinated and you had nowhere to get any alternative information. But it's not that things were materially different, it's just that the censorship was more coordinated. But it's hard to get people to think about this because you have to realize that almost everything that you thought has been a lie and that and the hardest part about that is forgiving yourself for buying into it I you know I

mean that was my own experience like oh wow I I believe this I believe this I believe this bought the whole thing you know materialism all of the the um you know the big bang theory all of it you know it's just it doesn't even matter which side you come at it's like okay this this was kind of a psyop I guess, where do we start with this? So what was your journey like? How did you progress through this? So I guess initially, I didn't have totally virgin ears. I'll say that. One of my very best friends, since I'm a little kid, he was red pilled right after the nine eleven. And he he successfully Right. convinced certainly his

inner circle that that wasn't what we were told. embarrassingly now looking back, I don't think I truly understood the significance of what that meant. It convinced me that, okay, yes, it led to the creeping in of we all take our shoes off on an airplane and the TSA and some wars in countries that I've never been to and things of that nature and some shit with oil that I probably don't understand. I didn't understand that there was something far more significant. You can draw a straight line going further back, you know, to I'd say at least the eighteen seventies. But let's say, you know, at a minimum, you know, nineteen thirteen, for example,

and from World War one to World War two. To JFK, to nine eleven, to COVID and a lot a lot of stuff in between, obviously, but I guess for me that this is sort of ridiculous, but a big jumping off point was I read this crazy book written by the guy who claims to be playing Paul McCartney when the real Paul was replaced in nineteen sixty six. It sounds preposterous even me saying it sounds preposterous, but That's the least interesting reveal on the book. It talks a lot about royal bloodlines and secret societies and just the note of Tavistock, which is a group that I had never heard of before and have learned about obsessively in the last few years. So that was sort of step one for me,

right? Like, you know, understanding kind of the Beatles as a cultural phenomenon that was created by intelligence apparatus which again without like I have hundreds of pages of receipts on this I highly encourage anyone who's interested in that topic to go find a guy on youtube or or rumble named mike williams he goes by the moniker sage of quay he's the foremost expert in the world on this topic um but like for me that was that was a big one right because it's like okay if the Beatles are essentially if you if you without I know, some people are hearing this for the first time and probably rolling their eyes. But let's just suspend disbelief from if you got to the place I got to, I'm like,

page three hundred of this book, I'm like, Alright, this, this is way too insidery. This, there's something real about this. And there's a whole bunch of reasons that it has to be real from like, you know, they include the the lyrics in the book, which if you know anything about publishing, you couldn't possibly do without being being infringing on someone's trademarks. to the fact that the Beatles' manager, his son was the guy who read the audio book, George Martin, Sir George Martin's son. So there's a bunch of insidery things. So it's either some very elaborate goof that they're still doing, you know, sixty years later, or maybe there's some merit to the story.

So I got over the hump and said, OK, there's some merit. This is undeniable. Probably spent my ten thousand hours on that. Right. And looked at every recorded footage of the Beatles and everything else. And I was so obsessed with it because for me, it's so formative to my parents, you know, children of the sixties. It was like formative stuff. You know, I knew the Beatles lyrics from the time I was in the crib. So like, well, if they if they could and if they could pull this off. Would this be isolated to the Beatles or could extrapolate to other areas? And that took me to like, you know, Dave McGowan and the Laurel Canyon thing, which for those not familiar, there's a there's a whole

thread on there's a book called Weird Scenes from Laurel Canyon that gets into a lot of this work. And Dave McGowan was an incredible researcher and wrote about other things around mind control and other really important topics. But again, I started with the with the entertainment realm and It became evident to me that there was more than meets the eye on, on all this stuff. Um, and then you start extrapolating thoughts and like, you know, I remember around. I started looking at Joe Biden and I've just found myself. I'm like, I would ask myself once a day, am I crazy person? Because I'd look at Joe Biden and I'd be like, that doesn't look like Joe Biden yesterday. And, you know,

I have all these composites of like faces with him and it's a different face. And I'm like, well, if they did this with Paul McCartney, I think they just did it that one time. You think that these aren't, that they're public figures who can't be replaced. So, sorry, I realize I'm going from like, zero sixty to full retard in ten seconds. you know, But, you know, I think the idea is it was a little bit of a process. You know, the Beatles, Billy Shears thing just gave me the notion of our reality can be constructed. And you touched on a really important theme in some of your opening, just around just the notion of freedom of consciousness, right? So whether we are being nudged in a particular

direction to embrace a thing, or whether we're being nudged in two different directions at the same time, and pick your side of whatever that issue is, right? Ukraine, Russia, Democrat, Republican, Israel, Gaza, like you can go down a long list of these dialectics. And it's very evident that as a species, we're being bred to hate each other. And social media seems to just be the amplification of that. And I just reject that on principle. I won't hate my friends and neighbors because they believe something that I don't believe or vice versa. I'm certainly open to I'm open minded and I would argue open hearted to every

alternative idea and show me an idea. Just show your work. Like, don't tell me, show me and let's talk about it. And you and I have debated And I think both subscribe some things privately. to that mentality of let's have it out around an open topic and then we'll figure it out. Neither will agree or we won't. But I can't name a whole person. I can't name anyone in the whole world, including my wife, that I agree on. No, I mean, that's that's definitely the case. Well, I mean, you're actually you've been vindicated on the stuff related to the Beatles. Mike Benz has actually talked You know, about this a lot. I actually just recently saw this movie. I don't know if you've seen this movie.

It's about it's about the Congo. And it's about did you know that Louis Armstrong was the was a U.S. ambassador to the Congo? I wrote about it. Oh, you wrote about it. I wrote a series on my Okay. Substack called Engineering Reality. It's got three parts. I know Brownstone published it. They published all three parts, but they changed the titles. And I don't remember exactly what the titles they used were. But if you have like show notes or you want to put But yes, Louis Armstrong was an ambassador, them in there or something. which, by the way, was also that whole program was propped up by the Rothschild family. which is just interesting. And it ultimately segued, I believe,

that that sort of cultural programming bled into the Beatles, which is, I think, where a lot of the counterculture stuff starts in the early, you know, nineteen sixties. Let's just put a marker there and then ultimately into Laurel Canyon, which then bleeds into. the glam movement and then punk You know, rock and gangster rap, and ultimately we wind up with Taylor Swift, who is quite obviously an intelligence asset. you know, And again, people know what they're signing up for, that's not to say all these because I'm not sure they do. But clearly there are guardrails all around this. I'm not, I'm familiar with some of Ben's work. I know he's touched on a lot

of the just social engineering stuff. And I think it's important that people know that just, you know, as a parent to me, it's important to understand that, you know, my progeny are being manipulated every second of every day by everything. And I used to think That was just, that was just like, like you, I thought it was consumerism. Yeah. They're just, you know, buy these, buy these, use this soap. It'll make you taller kind of thing. And now you realize that there's something far bigger going on and it's, it's, it's infiltrating our very consciousness in the way we think and we're seeing it. We're saying even just the, you know, we can laugh about like TDS or Elon derangement

syndrome or whatever the case may be. And it's everyone's so stuck on these characters. and who's a good guy and who's a bad guy and these, you know, I'm against you, that I think they're not asking the really important questions. Oh, I think that's definitely the case. I mean, we get put into these manufactured polarity contests. I mean, are you a, my joke about this, are you a Jeffrey Epstein American or are you an Andrew Tate American? I mean, it's almost to the point right now where we have to pick at that level, right? Like, who are we going to be? I mean, one of the things that I do like, I have a mixed interpretation of, well, with everyone, like with Elon Musk,

I have concerns about Elon Musk because of his involvement with technocracy. Yet at the same time, I do appreciate what he's doing with Doge. And I think that you can actually, you can hold both of those opinions at the same time. I like what he's doing with Doge, and I'm concerned that it's going to be the next step towards technocracy. And so it's really interesting that people, it's like this person is all good or all bad. Everything this person says is right or wrong, and that's dangerous. appreciate about Elon is he But one of the things I do does first principles thinking. and so much of what we deal with is people's opinions are not because they've sat and thought about it from

first principles or from any principles it's simply trying to associate with an in-group and just adopting the beliefs of people within your particular social network and we see that all over the place and so um I always try to to go to first principles and I always try to understand how something got to where it is today, how an institution turned out this way. And it begins with starting with, all right, what was the formation of this like? What was its original intent? And the one thing that I've found with a lot of these organizations, and I won't dwell on it too much, but like the FBI, you know, the FBI started out as a blackmail organization. I mean, J. Edgar Hoover,

that was one of his primary tactics, but yet J. Edgar Hoover himself was blackmailed by the mafia. So this is the basis of this, of the FBI. there've been multiple Now we have, television shows glorifying the FBI and the D-men, and this is an institution of high integrity, but I will tell you, if something started out as a blackmail organization, And then it's had no feedback at all, where it's been able to run completely unrestrained without any accountability. Organizations without any accountability do not become more, they do not improve or increase in integrity over time. that's interesting about this. And so that's the thing we don't even know the And so it's like,

depths of the horrors about how bad things are now, but you can understand where it started from. And then if you really have an appreciation of where it started from, then you're like, oh, wow, this is much worse than I actually thought. But on the Benz thing, you know, he talked about Cuba implementing, influencing the music scene in Cuba. you know, And a lot of this now with this USAID stuff, it's starting to come out, you know, how these types of things are funded and what programs are being used. And so it really is eye-opening. So your foray into the Beatles now I think is becoming more, it's not mainstream yet, but we're not too far off. Yeah. I'm sorry. So how have you progressed?

So if you start out with the Beatles, so I guess where are you now? What's the best way to kind of describe where you think we are? Like what's your best take today? Oh, I don't know where we are, but we can get to that. Can I quickly address a few of the themes you just hit? Because they're super important to sort of my whole thought process, right? And I'm less... certainly the last few One thing I've learned years is I don't know anything. This has been this whole experience, Right. this immersion, but impossibly humbling. whatever you want to call it, And there are things that I was sure I thought I understood that I am sure I don't know. And I think it starts with this notion of,

of killing your idols for me. So like you, Right. everything you just talked about is resonating in a very profound way. Right. Like, um, I'm the Red Sox, you're the Yankees. We have to hate each other. We can't agree on anything. And if you say A, I must say B, no matter what the issue is. And human beings are just far more nuanced than that. That is just not the way, it's not the way our species operates. Although on the flip side, we're also very tribal and we're mimics. So if we hear people in our tribe say a thing, we tend to repeat that thing. So at this point, I spent a long time trying guys and bad guys were. to figure out who the good And I'm totally uninterested in that,

certainly in the political arena. The state most certainly has teeth. We've got armies, we've got borders, we've got taxes, and that has real implications for the populace of a particular country versus another country. I'm much more interested in the invisible layer that I believe sits on top of that. So who are the real shot callers? or we just pawns in their You know, chessboard and while they do wars and trade agreements and I would argue resets. and maybe that's been the story of Um, history that I believe has also been rewritten. Um, so I don't know, I'm, I'm, I see these arguments, particularly on Twitter around like, you know, that guy's controlled up or he's

a good guy and he's a bad guy. And I, that's less interesting to me than the bigger picture, particularly I think with some of these limited hangouts, like they're take the information, see what you can prove and whether or not the person has an agenda that perhaps is revelation, take it and just push it further and try to widen the guardrails of what So I think that that's one point. you're allowed to say. Another is around the institutions. You hit on something really profound, which is, you know, you said earlier that I think some people, you mentioned the context of RFK, right? you know, Wanting to go back to, um, faith in our institutions. And I like RFK or most of what I see from RFK,

or at least I have until we'll see what he has to do. And I'm certainly willing to give him some runway in office. I am not necessarily on board with the view that the institutions warrant our trust or ever warranted our trust. And it sounds like you're there too. My belief is that most of these institutions that we take as foundational for the operating of society are simply not. They are mostly a ruse. They've mostly been a really long con. And I've been really interested in going back to just historical text. And that's certainly a lot of what I've been writing about. And if you go back and look at who some of the architects of these institutions are, it's pretty astounding.

So one thing, for example, that I didn't know nearly enough about, I'd heard of it, was Operation Paperclip. which was the, you know, if anyone's not familiar, was the project that got the, you know, I think there's reported like sixteen hundred Nazi scientists and doctors to come on board. They got out of Nuremberg, got on board to to the US and under the guise of fighting the Cold War because Russia was the new enemy. And what's interesting is they took over really significant, significant Western institutions like say NATO and NASA and the you know, Department of Defense and, you know, foundational things that have shaped the last eight

years of our lives. So one does start to have to ask questions. And it's I'm a really hard person to talk to. I recognize certainly in my friend group and the family, because there are foundational things that we all think the book is closed on. And I'm not as convinced. I'm not saying I know and I And again, won't I won't debate that. I'm just saying I simply don't know. And, you know, to the last point on this, you know, just on the division stuff, you know, there was, you know, Margaret Mead, the famous anthropologist, she and I think it was her third husband, a guy named Gregory Bateson, traveled to remote places like Papua New Guinea and people, places that had indigenous cultures there.

And they studied this concept called schismogenesis. They wrote about it extensively. under the guise of anthropological research. effectively doing was going And what they were to these populations that had, you know, tribes there. They would get people within the tribe to fight about a topic, and then they researched their learning, and they would come back and talk about it under published research in the name of science. So I started doing a little and it turns out he was digging on Bates, also an MKUltra doctor, which is interesting to say the least and you keep going on this thread and it's like well if you extrapolate that logic maybe what we were saying was formative

research about the human psyche and if you layer that on to things like to have a stock in some other organizations um you know the frankfurt school and others maybe this was just formative research in creating these rifts at social media scale which is what we're saying now And, you know, to your point about having these, the USA thing is maybe the you know, I, very best example, because I, you know, I do these strolls through social media where I, I see friends, old friends, some of whom don't talk to me anymore, new friends, and everyone's got a really strong opinion one way or the other. And it's like, oh no, rip this down. this is government waste and it You know, needs to go.

Or, you know, Elon Musk is evil and who elected him. And, you know, I, I just, I, I hate the hypocrisy more than anything else. If you know anything about government or how anything works, there are lots of people who weren't elected who have been big time shot callers for the last however many years. For example, who was running the United States? It probably was people who weren't elected. On the flip side of that, so I don't know. I don't think anything is quite as black and white as maybe we are led to believe it is. And I'm much more interested in the last thing you said, which was two things can be true at the same time. And I think not enough people are really exploring that topic,

even in communities that you and I are running in right now, right? Like the, it's very much the, like the good guys are in charge and our side, our side's in. And like, even I'll say this and they, you know, there was like a couple of weeks ago, there was an executive order to combat antisemitism, right? If, if quote our side, saw something like that, but it said, you know, transphobia. They would say, no, that's a violation of free speech. You can't do that. the First Amendment for a group. You can't do a carve-out of But for some reason in our dialectical games, that's one you can't touch. That's the third rail. So I don't know. principles or you don't, I think you either have

and you're either a discerning person who asks questions or you're not. And I would like to see more people that are unwavering on those principles. Well, I've been very, I mean, I guess, I actually gave a talk about this. and you know, I've actually been looking at this for five years. I've kind of taken the approach of, you know, you can't fix the United States. You can't fix our current system. Why don't we talk about creating something new from first principles? Let's literally examine I mean, most political structures were created by force or you had some sort of, you know, feudal system or whatever it happens to be. There hasn't been like a scientific or principle

based approach to governance. The U.S. is probably the closest to that. But you have to look at it two hundred fifty years after and say, well, how are we doing relative to the spirit of the design? as well as the actual implementation of it based on the Constitution. Like we veered dramatically away from it. And I've tried to get people to have conversations about that from first principles. And I've maybe now found three or four people in the world that are actually interested in talking about this. And I still think it's actually very important that it feeds into network states. You're right. People are people are to me, the problem is people have bought into the only way we

can fix these problems is to work within the existing system. So it's going to be our guys are good or, you know, now the white hats are there or not. And the principles disappear. And I will tell you, the anti-Semitism thing. So let me get this straight. We got redacted information about Epstein after being promised we'd get the full release on Epstein. Epstein clearly had ties to Mossad. And within a forty eight hour period of time of not only learning that what we have is redacted information, we also learned that future information related to national security threats will be redacted. And at the same time, we had the head of HHS, the DOJ and other people out pushing anti-Semitism.

that's a little bit worrying to me actually the combination of those things and the timing of it is it doesn't make any sense to me or actually I mean you know is is the current administration completely compromised like it almost comes off that way it's almost like blink twice if you're okay because there's been a one eighty turnaround on some of these on some of these positions um Anyway, I don't know where I was. I got a little off on that. But just because it's really been a head scratcher to me as to where this has come from and why this is like this. I don't know if you have any thoughts on this issue, but... I think you even suggesting that is anti-Semitic.

Well, there you go. It's... The whole thing is preposterous. I... I have a lot of opinions on this. I'm a progeny of Holocaust survivors. My other grandfather was Menachem Begin's bodyguard in Israel, and I have a lot of opinions on this. I understand Jewish pride in a very personal and profound way. I understand multigenerational trauma in a very personal and profound way. I think we are watching, in many ways, the manifestation of that play out. I wish we could have more open and honest conversations and not necessarily equate questions about the state of Israel or affiliations with the Jews,

two very different things. because I think those are I can both have love in my heart for the citizens of Israel and the citizens of Palestine and know that the governments of both are impossibly corrupt. I also want to point out something I did with my religious sister-in-law recently, who is a big proponent of the state of Israel, that it's not lost on me that Israel was, as far as I know, the first country to violate the Nuremberg Code. So if radar wasn't going up then, it probably should have been. And I think it's really important. And again, we don't have to have a whole conversation about Israel. I know it's a loaded topic, but I I think for me, the bigger thing is no

topic should be off limits. Nothing should be taboo. Nothing works without free speech. There's a reason it's first. And to paraphrase Dave Chappelle, when it doesn't work out, there's the Second Amendment. So, you know, the Constitution, we know the United States has flaws and warts on the one hand. On the other hand, the Constitution is still a magnificent idea. and an aspirational document that we should all try to live up to and live up to the promise forever and we seem to be drifting away and we seem to be worried more about nonsensical culture wars and the belief of our neighbor than who might be sitting at the top pulling the strings on all

this stuff and that's that's the kind of stuff that keep that keeps me up at night and I do truly appreciate your point about the the seeping technocracy layer um because Yes, USAID was an obvious, it was obviously a heinous organization that was a front for money laundering at a minimum, cultural engineering at a minimum. There's evidence to say there's far more sinister things going on there around trafficking of humans and other things that as this continues to come out, I think people who are willing to look at it will see this for what it is. But at the same time, are there risks with

putting people who have openly advocated for technocratic solutions in charge of the government? Yeah, of course. Yeah, no, I mean, and I mean, I'm kind of seeing it Again, because it's white knight syndrome. The issue for me is that people, we outsource our agency. We give up our own individual discretion, decision-making, controls over our own thoughts, our own emotions, and our own actions. And we give these to these white knights. And so when you do that, It's not going to be very difficult for Elon if he goes in and cuts all this waste, which there's plenty of and would be pretty easy to identify and get rid of. Then all of a sudden, he's going to become a hero.

And whatever he says next, people are going to just blindly... follow based on his track record. And I think the whole point of the Constitution or even going back to the earlier conversation about free will and consciousness is the point of this, at least in my opinion, is not to find one person to make all of the decisions for us, but to have a framework that maximizes all of our free will so that we can exercise our own decisions. And that's actually the fundamental, you know, I guess, issue here on the Musk side. So again, that's a very polarizing issue. And I think even the thing with Epstein and Mossad, describe this with people, the way that I try to it's like trying to

blame... Mossad does not equal Jews in the same way CIA doesn't mean Americans, right? I hate the CIA. The CIA is a terrorist organization. But if I say the CIA is a terrorist organization, that doesn't mean I hate the American people. And it's the same way with Mossad. So we have to be able to say, look, they have the Mossad, we have the CIA. These are rogue elements of these countries that do not reflect the people themselves. And we have to be able to talk about them. that and their infiltration and what they're doing separate from the people and any kind of association at that level, at a racial level or even a national level? Yes.

Emphatic yes. Yes to all that. And by the way, Epstein was CIA also, and that's pretty well documented. So I think people are also looking at these intelligence agencies as isolated units when in fact there is a I believe there's a conglomerate now, factions at the very highest level, maybe there's dueling but they are, they're in cahoots with one another. Um, this, my understanding is that the CIA was, um, prior to its formation was essentially the, the protection service for the Royals. So, and if you, if you. Right. If you also look, I'm a big fan of looking at certain inflection points on dates, because I do believe there have been these resets. So the CIA was created in, was founded in .

It was OSS before, but it ostensibly became the CIA in . That same year was the year the Cold War began. It was the year the IMF was created. The Air Force was founded. The Roswell crash. The Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered. which is also interesting, particularly when you think about Israel being formed the following year. It was Admiral Byrd's Operation High Jump on Antarctica. And there was another one that I noticed. Oh, the first commercial microwave oven was created by Raytheon, of all people. I look at some of these dates So, you know, and that was clearly like a big ratchet up here. I mentioned nineteen thirteen earlier. That was another one.

Obviously, obviously the Fed and I'm sure your audience knows all about that. But it was also had some notes. Income tax. ADL was founded. That's an interesting one. The Seventeenth Amendment shifted America from a republic to a democracy. Women's suffrage, again, back to social engineering, along with the first package cigarettes, the founding of Astra, now AstraZeneca. The Rockefeller Foundation was created. Henry Ford invents the assembly line. So again, if you And again, I've gotten pretty good at considering an idea without actually believing it. If you can consider the notion that we're living in the Truman Show and we're all Truman,

and there is a through line of a manufactured culture and technology is way further ahead than we are led to believe. We can talk more about that in a moment. But if you can accept that as a possibility, not as a certainty, but even as a possibility, It would make sense that there are these inflection points. Twenty twenty was an inflection point. The way you and I are communicating right now would have been almost unfathomable pre-COVID. And now it's I think most people talk to more people this way than meeting a person. Right. So there are these massive shifts in our culture that happen usually because of some event. And whether those events are false flags or organic,

that's all up for debate. But the implications and sort of the societal shifts that happen as a result of them are kind of undeniable. So to your point about Elon, I wrote a piece called The Second Matrix, which was a term that I didn't know when I wrote it, was popularized by a fantastic writer named Jason Horsley, who wrote, bunch of great books but for me vice of kings was transformative and my understanding sort of my own arc um and I've gotten to know jason a little bit he's a really great guy but he um I wrote this thing and one of the things that I think exists in the just this notion of like trust

the plan or you know however you want to frame it like that you know someone's coming the cavalry's coming I think people resign their own agency and Therefore, they want to be saved. And maybe the Savior, I have immense respect for people of faith, but the Savior can come in the form of a Jesus figure. For some, it comes in the form of Bitcoin or some magical currency. For others, it comes in Q or whatever this admin might be. I know you and I share the belief that we pay attention, observe it, Don't absorb it. Don't let it define your person or your character and still take

responsibility for yourself, your own actions, your own family, and try to be solution oriented. So I think too many people are like, all right, you know, whether you are, you know, all right, the good guys are in charge now. Let's not ask any questions or you're the opposite of that. You know, fascist, like everyone just needs to chill the fuck out, pay attention, ask more questions and hold himself to some real standards. Yep. Well, I think related to that and resigning agency, that's a very important point. And related to that also is there's a, you know, I really believe that, you know, where you place your attention is where you place your energy. And we have a whole bunch of

examples where a lot of people are living their not their preferred case scenario, they're hedging. In fact, they're putting their attention on low probability worst case outcomes so in other words there's in the last year I don't even know how many events I've been to at this point like I've been everywhere from brownstone events to pork fest to chris martinson's event to uh g edward griffin's red pill event to anarcho poco to minarito like it's a really wide range it's in fact it's kind of it's almost hard to process trying to like feel and understand what, what's going on. But I've noticed there's a lot of like fatalistic, well, you know,

we've got to focus on, on survival. It's like, there's this whole, we're going to have to grow our own food. We're going to have to do all this stuff. And, and almost this kind of, um, The ideal is either some combination of Amish or Little House on the Prairie, right? Like somehow that this is the idealized form. And it's very much survival based. People are placing a lot of attention. And I think they're going to draw that to themselves. I'm actually more optimistic. For instance, there's the technocracy front. But I don't think that technology is bad. It's like anything else. Technology can have a freedom component to it. or it can have a tyranny component to it.

Like I like decentralized AI. I like, you know, what Mike Adams is doing, Health Ranger with, he's releasing an AI. You'll be able to buy a three thousand dollar Nvidia supercomputer. You'll be able to host, you'll be able to have self-custody AI just like you have self-custody cryptocurrency. So I don't think that It has to be this survival thing. I actually think that... I find myself not wanting to put my attention on that. I think people are trying to do this like, well, all right, I'm going to do intentional communities. Everybody's going to go back to subsistence living. I don't have a conclusion about this other than that's not where I want to

place my energy. I'm big on this idea of where do we want to put our energy. If we choose to be pessimistic... we will probably draw those experiences to ourselves. And if we take an optimistic case, then we can, I guess, manifest or whatever. This is a little sidetrack, but I wanted to actually convey that because we haven't talked in a while. And this is a conclusion, not a conclusion, but it's a thought, an insight that I've had just going to these various events and seeing a lot of what's going on. And there's also a lot of, you know, forming local communities where it's like, well, I don't like this political system, but where there's not a lot of examination of what went

right or went wrong. Once again, not going back to first principles like you'll find a lot of intentional communities that end up devolving into communism. where you have people that then defected from the intentional community. I've met, I've met more people like that than people that are satisfied with their intentional community. So I'm throwing that out there without that. I don't even know how that fits into this, but I just wanted to see, see what you thought of that. Yeah, no, those are all, I mean, you and I could talk for hours about a lot of this stuff. The, so the intentional community thing, I have a friend who, I have two friends who did those, those two years ago and

both ended really badly. And I think that's human nature, particularly in small tribes. Though I love community. I love the spirit of community. I love propping up or the idea of propping up your neighbor and those things. So this has been a rolling debate in my inner friend group for the last five years. Really longer, but certainly as everyone's felt under siege the last five years. So friend A says, We all need to chip in and buy a bunch of land and live off the land and not worry about the outside world. And then we don't have to worry about fiat anything because we've got this community. Friend B says, first of all, they could block out the sun. So how the fuck are we going

to get energy? Second of all, that sounds like death to me. I live in a city and I will stay until I am conquered in this city because this is my life and I was born two hundred years too late to understand. So, you know, I think to your point about like it being doom or not, I think that also is eye of the beholder, right? Because in the example I just gave, friend A loves permaculture and loves living off the land and loves being outdoors. And that's invigorating. That's exciting. And that's awesome. And he should do that. Friend B would rather hang out in, you know, a hotel roof and, you know, do his thing and has...

No life skills outside of a knowledge worker. Right. So, and that's his thing. So I think, I think like everything like choices are aspirational and how I appreciate the way you framed it. How do you want to exert your energy? Right. And how do you want to spend your time? And I think we all, we have a number of days on, on, in this realm and we need to choose how we want to, how we want to spend those days. And what do we want to exude? Do we want, do we want to be loving people? Or do we want to be consumed by fear? And I think it often starts there, right? And to the point of like, kind of what you were talking about earlier, just the trusting the plan stuff.

I think we all have to keep our eye on that. I'm going through whatever this immersion is and trying to rewire. I've lived on this earth like a half century or whatever. I've amassed information as it just turns out, most of it was wrong, but it's, it's still, it's still notes in my head and I'm just kind of recalibrating it in a different context. And my understanding of the history of most everything is, you know, there's been sort of the puppeteers and it's the right hand and the left hand, and we're guided through all of these different, this, this terrain. And I think we have to be really careful about, you know, in the secret societies, there's this notion of like the, you know,

the Luciferians, right? And it's the light bringer and come to the light. And I think we do have to be careful that I like a lot of what the current administration is doing. I like a lot of what Elon Musk says and does. I'm interested as a technologist, I've been interested in him for a long time. And I'm certainly interested in a lot of these big projects. I am very, very interested in cutting bloated government and wasted taxpayer money and that's putting hurt on citizens of this country and others. But I am also mindful that, you know, the very idea of a confidence game is building someone's confidence. And there could be a long con. I'm not making any accusations.

I'm not saying that's what's happening here. And I want to believe these are good guys. But I'd be a fool to just simply buy into a bunch of characters that I don't really know. You know, until I can sit down with someone and look them in the eye and really understand what their psyche is, all I'm seeing, these are, I might as well be rooting for Tony Soprano at this point or a character in a Marvel movie. These are just characters, right? Now, granted, it's real life and there's real life implications. I don't want to trivialize that, right? Like the policy decisions can manifest into economic hardship, it can economic, you know, war, whatever the case may be. And I certainly don't want

to trivialize people's real suffering, but for someone like me, that's like sitting in the woods, talking to the trees, trying to make sense of this every day. I don't know. So earlier when you said like, where's my head at my head is that ask, like, ask real questions, try to try to re try to go back to original texts from a hundred years ago. people had to say about See what some of these these institutions about technocracy and. maybe ask yourself, has this all been a long come? And, you know, I will never trust any institution, certainly for the rest of my life. I just, I can't, I'm certainly not a federal institution. How could I? The notion of it sounds revolting.

So unless there's a, unless there is some sort of very public apology for them fucking with humanity for my entire life and a long time before. This is why I have no friends, by the way. You got plenty of friends. But I mean, this is true with these organizations. And a lot of this, you mentioned, it does seem like there was a big shift right after World War II. I don't know if you've seen this documentary, The Minds of Men. I haven't. This is a really interesting, it's three hours and forty two minutes. It's on YouTube. It's by Truthstream Media.

You'll love it. I mean, it is a phenomenal documentary. In fact, I want to watch it again because it really goes into the foundations of these organizations. It talks a lot about the psychological experiments that were going on. MK Ultra. but it shows a lot of footage and it puts it puts together a lot of pieces and and a lot of this stemmed from uh even brutalist architecture came out of world war ii um and and so a lot of this was just we have to do everything that we can to focus on safety and uh and you know at the expense of freedom and it was kind of like a top-down imposed thing throughout all institutions so yeah we have to be able to control people's minds we have to

be able to do whatever we need to do to to to keep things stable and not chaotic. And so it's a really good documentary. But yeah, it is tough to trust these institutions. But to your point about you had a friend that likes permaculture and another friend that wants to live in the city, this is what I like about network states and basically the whole concept of, you know, We didn't consent to be governed. We were born and then all of a sudden we're here and all of these rules are imposed upon us. You could have literally millions of network states in a situation where you pick which community you want to be a part of and you don't even have to just pick one.

You can be in multiple communities. You can move in and out of them very easily. And I think that there's somebody that did some study that... you know, beyond a hundred and forty people, organizations tend to kind of break down whether it's companies or and I've experienced that with companies. But I mean, even being in the Free State Project, you know, the Free State Project is by no means a cohesive unit. There are as many factions within the Free State movement as you can imagine, and that's okay. I think that the idea of people being, instead of trying to find the best solution to impose on everyone, the ability to have more solutions and have those voluntarily exist simultaneously,

that's really intriguing to me. There are issues with this, like how that actually goes about happening. I'm not saying network states are ideal. And in fact, a lot of the network states that have been implemented or that are in the early stages, I fear they themselves could become technocracies and a lot of the ideology and a lot of the people behind it I mean there's this I think I sent you a note to me curtis yarvin and yaval harari are are spinning technocracy from the right and from the left uh a lot of actually even network states from bellagio he actually takes a lot of this you know kind of neo-monarchy approach So there's no, you know, again, there is no one size fits all.

But if people want that, they can have that. If you want to be a part of a neo-monarchy voluntarily, hey, that's fine. Brian Johnson and all his biohacking, I mean, he's doing that as part of a network state. But I do think that it is interesting to have more choice and it is interesting the idea of having voluntary governance. And being able to use blockchain technology, I think it's Polis or Logos. I can't remember. Sterling Lujan is involved in both. But there's an organization that's actually creating decentralized blockchain technology to help new network states that are being formed so that you can use them for... You can have your own anonymous communication system.

You can have voting systems that are basically building out a whole infrastructure that can be adopted by different network states. And so this stuff is interesting, but I'm at the early stage of it. I'm going to write about it, but I'm going to be spending a lot of time on this because I am interested. I mean, as you mentioned earlier, You know, highlighting some of these issues is one thing, but one thing that I've actually found is you can point out how bad things are, and unless there's a solution being proposed, you're actually just demoralizing people. I've actually found that that's largely been the case. even with the stuff that This is why it's like,

I've done with CBDCs, it's like, okay, here's technocracy, at least here's a solution, because otherwise people, if you listen to the first half of my talk, people are like, oh, wow, okay, I didn't realize it was that bad. And then people get paralyzed. But anyway, one thing I want to say, so you had mentioned that you've, you know, outside of politics, you've been looking at, well, what is the transparent layer kind of behind it all? So what have you learned about technocracy and the technocratic blueprint? Oh, well, I wrote the piece you mentioned about a month ago. I think it's you called it the latest because it was on Brownstone a few days ago. Let me first say,

I don't know a ton about network states, and please keep me posted but I'm super interested on your research. I haven't read it yet. I got Balaji's book, But I love the idea, just the notion of taking the technocratic model and flipping it on its head and empowering it as a tool for sovereignty, So that it's, right? I don't believe we can vote our way out of anything, really. because I think we need to take control of our own being, our own person, our own families, our own communities. And this, I don't yet understand the implementation mechanism, but it's certainly worth trying, right? So, you know, I think real change has to be It won't happen top-down, ever, never has, a groundswell.

right? So real revolution or evolution, however you want to frame it, it's going to be bottom-up. Um, you know, in terms of, in terms of my own exploration on this stuff. Um, so I think a lot of the themes I've been talking about were implicit implicitly about technocracy. Um, and I, you know, again, I I've been in this like research group called a study group for lack of a better word, better phrase, but for a few years now, and we have this massive cannon of notes. Um, so. I just started writing some of them up because we, you know, we've been sharing, I don't know, a few hundred messages a day for five years, including a lot of, you know, PDFs and source material.

And so I've got all this stuff and I've just been really careful about sort of what I was putting out publicly. Not that I'm a public figure in any way, but I, you know, going back four years, I was ready to kind of I was rather, tether my entire identity to mRNA shots. subsequently cbdc and you right and and then know this was going to be my you know my calling in life and then I keep zooming out and I find out I need a wider lens and oh actually it's all right so and I sort of got to that point I don't know a year and a half ago something like that and I guess I've been writing a little bit before then um more recently I decided I'm like I've got all this content I

might as well start writing more of it um but I've been somewhat careful in terms of the way I'm presenting it. So you know, I'm not, you opened up in your opening remarks before I got on talking about the Silicon Valley lizard people, like, I'm not writing about the lizard people just yet. Because I know how that goes over. But, you know, I am, I am trying to just present their own words, right? And what, what, what did they and I generally, whatever you want to call them, the deep state, the cabal, the administrative state, whoever it is, but there are these multi-generational family networks that have been at this for a really long time.

And if you go back and you read, if you read the words from the Huxleys, the Darwins, the Rockefellers, if you look at some of the institutions that many people have heard of, but never really understood what they are, things like the Tri-Lateral Commission or the Council for Foreign Relations or the Rhodes Roundtables. It seems like these things have been put in motion a really, really long time ago. One group that I touched on but didn't get into is Tavistock, which is a group that I knew almost nothing about. I never even heard of them. Actually, that's not true. I heard of them more recently only because they were a controversial clinic

in the UK doing gender affirming care. But then I went back and started studying the history of Tavistock. And as it turns out, they were set up around World War I as a, you know, something for soldiers with shell shock, but it was really psychological programming, right? And both at the micro level, which ultimately paved the way for MKUltra type programs, but also at the macro level and the society level. And there are certain trends that come into play, like say gender affirming care. there's actually an amazing Um, there, researcher named Courtney Turner, um, who's probably done shows on Tavistock and written extensively about it. I highly recommend her work. Um, but if you,

so I guess my process is I go in, I look at a whole, a whole bunch of stuff going back when I look at how that might be extrapolated to present day. Um, there, there are, there are clear historical through lines, right? So, you know, I, I wrote a piece, um, They're all kind of intertwining in my head at this point. The information factory. And I talked about how schooling wasn't compulsory in the United States till like, you know, the mid-eighteen fifties or something. And, you know, we take for granted kids go to school. Right. You know, even in your little house on the prairie, there was a small school there, right, in that community. But it wasn't it wasn't a public school from the state.

So that just even the manifestation of how people learn is state driven and top down, right? So the whole model, the whole education model came to us via the Prussian. So the quick story is something like, you know, Prussia famously lost its war to Napoleon. They threw down their soldiers and the King of Prussia was pissed. It was like, we need a more rigid school system to make more compliant soldiers. And then Horace Mann, who was an industrialist in the United States, who had nothing to do with education, was like, oh yeah, we're going to need more compliant factory workers. So let's bring that model here. So we got people to use the machines. And that was the birth of

the school system in the United States. Fast forward that, look at any college campus and look at the programming of the kids there across any number of issues. And we're seeing the manifestation of that plan. It's also, just as an aside, it's also one of the reasons, and I have, serious issues as I'm sure you do as well with the whole notion of the laptop class and their smugness and expertise on pretty much every issue. And I saw this particularly with a lot of my tech friends who pride themselves on being iconoclastic and edgy and against the grain and disruptive to the system and all the buzzwords. And when the single greatest

you know, civil liberties crisis, certainly of our lifetime, maybe if the last hundred years came to our country, they did nothing except trust institutional authority. And I think what we're seeing is that is their schooling. They have been taught to be super compliant, right? And I think the most obvious example of that are doctors, right? You have to be You know, the amount of times that I, you know, I'm the crazy guy who read the, you know, read the entire Pfizer trials and, watch the eight hour hearing to you know, decide whether or not this made sense for my children when I saw there was a lot of social pressure where I was living. And I would share that with a friend like,

well, you know, my brother's a doctor and he thinks you're crazy. It's like, well, your brother has demonstrated that he's institutional authority listening to the who's parroting safe and effective back to the notion of mimicry. He's never questioned who's Right. overseeing that institutional authority and where where are they getting their information? And are they asking are they going to first principles and asking questions? Did anyone in the trials get sick? Were they fair trials? Is this the same recipe that's being administered at global scale that was approved? Is there another path? Right. So all these things about getting into the whole vaccine thing there.

it was a test of compliance. And doctors, if you can make it through however many years of schooling, become a doctor, eight years or whatever to they're probably pretty good at following instructions, right? So I think we need to start seeing all of this, whether it's institutional through lines or educational through lines or even culture. These are just control mechanisms. And we're seeing now that they're algorithmically perfect. Really? Like, you know, if you go into my feed, you get all kinds of crazy shit, because that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for and paying attention to. If you go into, you know, some friends of mine, it'll be totally different, maybe,

the diametrically opposed point in fact, of view on a lot of these issues. So I, I think the key is to try to is is to try to, again, go back to the original source materials, or present day source materials, right. And One thing we didn't talk about, though, that I'll just interrupt myself and say, there's also been this notion of introducing some of these themes through fiction, right? And I just want to bring that up because I think it's an important part of just the whole process. Go read every sci-fi book or look at any sci-fi movie over the last hundred years, you know, from like War of the Worlds to present day, and there's a dystopian future that you know,

maybe as a warning or maybe we're being mentally prepared for it. But it's, I think a lot of these notions are presented through fiction and then normalized in culture and then, you know, implemented through policy. And again, I'll say with the COVID example, like I remember in twenty twenty when a lot of my friends like, oh, my God, did you see that movie Contagion? It was it was just like what's happening. And then if you do a little research on contagion, you can see that one of the advisors is Nathan Wolf, who's deeply involved in Metabiota, one of the biolefin labs that are in current-day Ukraine. And it's like, well, maybe that's coincidence, or maybe it's not. Maybe this is all just a

little bit of predictive programming, so we know how to bait. So sorry, I'm rambling a little bit, but there's a lot actually that I can respond to with that, because you mentioned War of the Worlds. And I mean, HG Wells was was known for well, he was involved with the founding of the League of Nations. He was involved with actively promoting the the U.N. and was adamant about one world government and was tied in with Huxley, all of these people, eugenicists. And there was another book that he wrote where if you actually read his nonfiction, you're like, oh my God, this guy's horrendous. Like this guy is kind of the architect of a lot of this stuff. People are like, oh,

And so people don't know that. he wrote these science fiction books. And it's like, no, this guy was hugely involved on the other side. And it's interesting with Huxley because you had Aldous Huxley, whose brother was actually the original head of UNESCO and was a complete eugenicist. And then you have Aldous Huxley writing about kind of the dystopian take of that. excellent point about how And so I think that's an much of this fiction is engineered and how much of it is predictive and how much of what we're seeing is just kind of being manifested through fiction. But you also mentioned uh the educational system

and the medical system and I'm you know part of it for me is I I get I I have the benefit of when I ran my healthcare company I got involved with I had some academics that were trying to analyze what I was doing from their left brain perspective and I'm not going to go into all the details of this but I was offering a solution that was a multi-faceted solution that was customized based on the environment and they're sitting there wanting to do a clinical trial on one aspect of what is a multiple, multi-pronged solution. And I'm like, this study won't even show you anything. Even if you prove whatever it is you're trying to prove out of this study, it's irrelevant to what the

solution is because the solution itself is dynamic. And I ended up speaking at a Harvard bioethics conference and all this other stuff. And that's when I started to form this opinion about public health and started to research public health. And then my wife was heavily involved with vaccine choice long before, like in two thousand five. So she actually has physical copies of documents that you now can't get online, but showing the relationship between vaccines and autism and a whole variety of other things. It's not that this information didn't exist. It's been suppressed. So I've been saying for a long time, And I continue to say public health is a depopulation death cult.

I literally ignore anything coming out of public health. But I also don't I also don't go to doctors because to your point, they have been indoctrinated. And there's a commonality with the public education system and the way modern medicine works in that. And that is John Rockefeller. who heavily influenced both. Rockefeller got involved with public education because he wanted factory workers, even everything from the idea of being able to have men and women in the workplace. We need to have public school basically providing a daycare role, and now we're going to have men and women working factory jobs, but the education itself was all a focus on left brain activities, being able to do tasks,

ignoring creativity, implementing things like bells and systems, training people for a factory environment, while at the same time suppressing people's creativity so that they don't become competition. And Rockefeller did the same thing to medicine. So I look at modern medicine. When somebody says, consult your doctor, the thing is, as you go through this process, you realize, uh and you start to wake up you're always god I have to unlearn everything well no one has to unlearn more than a doctor or somebody that has a phd those are the people that actually have to do the most work to kind of even get back to ground zero and so to me every time that this like

the solution for all this is oh well doctors together to fix public health. We have to get all the It's like, no, that's actually not even the beginning of the problem. The doctors need to unlearn what they've learned and whatever needs to come about doesn't need to come about from the people that are still indoctrinated. So anyway, that was my... Do you know any doctors? I don't know any doctors like I mean, I will tell you what's interesting is I ended up when I went through my whatever process and epiphany in in in twenty nineteen, I end up resonating more with chiropractors and people that come out of a completely different side. And I'm not saying I agree with everything that they say,

but I ended up following and researching a lot of what Dr. Eric Berg was was looking into in terms of the Keto diet, I ended up spending a lot of time on fasting. I did a thirty seven day fast at one point and like fasting is this thing if you go to a doctor, your doctor's like, oh, it's like there are a lot of people that think if you don't eat food for a day, you're going to die. it's actually this is what's what's I mean, put out there. There's this guy, Dr. Goldhaber, I believe, who also was a chiropractor, but he runs water only fasting clinics And where you do medically supervised up to forty day fast and they've well, I'm sure YouTube will strike me for this,

but people had stage four cancers that have been completely obliterated because your body, when you're fasting, goes into fight or flight mode and your body will, you know, destroy the bad stuff first. It needs to become hyper efficient. Cancer operates on sugar. of stuff that like, even with that, And so there's a whole bunch so it wasn't by design, but I ended up finding that I was actually listening to a lot of people that I just stumbled into that were actually chiropractors or had a completely different set of training. Yeah. I was just going to make a joke about the smugness of doctors, but I'm glad you mentioned all that. In fact, there's a, unfortunately I've had some, um,

experience with a few people in my life that have been diagnosed with cancer for the last couple years and I I've come to believe thanks to a friend of mine who kind of nudged me in this direction that it is very much metabolic disease um there's some great work from otto warburg and others talking about that um but yeah that I mean you just did a lot of themes that I'm a little obsessed with so certainly with the you know it's what you're describing is what I've been calling kind of fiat everything Right? If you can make up these artificial constructs and they become pervasive, whether it's the fake wars or the fake money or the fake food or the fake culture, it's just all fiat, right?

So, you know, Rockefeller medicine, I wrote about extensively in that piece, the information factory just didn't know it was basically just a big boondoggle to shut down what was a thriving centuries long understanding of naturopathy. I am proud to say our family doctor is a Chinese medicinal expert who basically does acupuncture and the only foreign substances she'll ever recommend or supplements and things of that nature, but does recommend things like fasting. And we talk a lot about diet, so on and so forth. But no, I mean, you're hitting on a bunch of these themes. In terms of wells, he talked about concepts like the You know,

world brain. And, you know, that sounds eerily reminiscent of something like, say, centralized AI. He talked about, you know, I mentioned in my piece, he had a piece called The Open Conspiracy, which he said was a movement of all that is intelligent in the world. And really just talks consistently about the scientific elite. A lot of these themes, I wasn't aware a lot of these themes really come from Woodrow Wilson, who seems to put a lot of this emotion. I'm working on a really big piece that I'm going to get eviscerated for among finance wonks and legal wonks, because it's not my expertise, but I'm going to put a lot

of stuff out there. I want to bounce it off you, in fact. I mean, Wilson arguably was sort of that big shift, certainly towards globalism. you could draw a straight line from I mean, the League of Nations to the WEF, but really the shift was representative government rule to rule by experts, right? And had utter disdain for people that were not considered experts. and I think this is part of the problem. You know, And because whether you're talking about your, you know, your startup experience or, you know, my, my observation of talking to, you know, my friend whose brother's a doctor, I think part of the problem is the experts can nitpick on these technical details in isolation, right? They,

I will argue with a doctor about a technical issue about the human body that I don't understand. Cause I'm not a doctor. I'm just some dude who knows how to search the internet. Right. Um, or. you know, they're so caught up in their training, which may have been wrong in the first place to your point, but they can't possibly understand that they're so deep in the trees. They can't even see the forest. And it's, it's like, yes, Right. let's not argue on this very precise point. Let's zoom out. And they're missing, they're missing a navigation map, right? they're missing the very notion of They're, understanding how these large technical domains all relate to one another.

So I have a really close friend who's, um, two friends, actually their cousins who, who had a anti money laundering software company. And they, they caught financial crimes. Like they caught real, like real conspiracies, like on behalf of financial institutions and governments. And they eventually realized with the good guys and wound up not doing, they weren't always working they sold the business. But I remember when twenty, twenty-one rolled around and the vaccine was being rolled out and my buddy was getting in a debate with the doctor. And the doctor immediately credential flashed and was like, well, did you go to medical school? And my friend was like, I'm trained in corruption.

Do you understand that the CDC has been completely captured? Because I can show you all the ways how from their funding to the fact that this trial is ridiculous, but it doesn't matter because you realize at some point you're kind of talking over each other and you're having two very, very different conversations. And one is about minutia of detail. And the other is just pattern magic. And I'll give a more ridiculous example. When I was making some noise about the mandates in twenty-one, I have a friend who's a tech VC, a very prominent tech VC, who has made gobs of money with his own pattern recognition. And we got into a debate.

I think I mentioned something about one of the footballers collapsing on field. And he immediately direct messaged me on Twitter and was like, Hey, just so you know, this is, this is Russian disinformation. And I found the CNN article from the day before saying it was Russian disinformation, which I thought was interesting. And then like, listen, I like, I'm, you know, I go to, I go to primary sources, like here's all the articles in all of these European countries. Like these, these things are really happening. I'm not saying I can attribute causality to why. And it turned into a back and forth. And to his credit, I will say of all the people that were engaging me at that time,

he did engage and he read everything I sent. And I sent him some studies. And one of the studies, I will never forget, his response to me was, there are ten thousand kids that have myocarditis. It's six thousand. Thereby making my point. So, yes, Right. maybe the study was precisely wrong and it maybe overestimated the amount of damage that was being done. to children's hearts. However, it was directionally accurate, and maybe we should be having a public conversation, not about thwarting disinformation that might, in this case, suppress vaccine hesitancy, but insert whatever the issue is. But rather, we should be talking about the

fact that kids are having heart problems, and that's not normal. And we all need to just kind of, I don't know, go outside, look at the sky, maybe question our sources a little more, maybe question, you know, what's the famous Orwell quote? You know, the party told you to reject your own eyes and ears. It was their last and most essential command. And I'm at the point now where like a few years ago, I was quoting Orwell as a warning signal. And now I'm like, Oh, Orwell knew all, he knew this was coming or of course he knew this was, this was just all revelation of the method or just to prime our brains for it. So I don't know. Well, I mean, even to that point, I mean,

now when people even try to use scientific studies in an argument, ninety percent of these studies haven't can't be verified. And so it'll be interesting to see how AI is applied to science. I mean, AI can uncover so much fraud, I mean, just at a high level. And I think we're going to find that a lot of concepts and ideas that we've just assumed were true have been built on a foundation of lies. And then when you get to that foundational lie, it completely changes the way we view an entire element of health or science or whatever. It happens to be. I hope we get to see a lot of that. I hope that doesn't get suppressed because there

are a lot of people whose livelihoods and I mean, There are people in academia that, it's going to be really tough. you know, you're now you're a PhD, you're a postdoc or whatever. And it turns out your entire existence is built on a lie. That's going to be a bit of a shock. eye-opener for those folks. That's going to be an But it is tough because people rely on experts and you see that a lot. Even with Elon, I will say this is the thing about Doge. The most productive period I've ever had in my entire life was I dropped out of college and I started a company with six other guys that I got to drop out of college as well. They all dropped out their freshman year,

people from MIT, people from top schools. We hadn't been beaten down or indoctrinated by uh by college education and and we didn't know how the world worked which meant we we didn't know what to do or what not to do and so things that were just obvious to us like we wouldn't think that somebody would put regulations I've been struggling with payment processors and banks for forever every company I've ever dealt with had issues with banks even though they weren't controversial companies and none of the stuff that I was doing was targeted by the government or in any particular way. There was just always this friction. But when I started my first company, it never occurred to me

that money would operate this inefficiently and so we were able with seven people I've never been able to reproduce the amount of productivity that we had with seven people when I was nineteen years old so when I see doge when I see these people saying well who are these people going in and and examining and auditing these things they're just kids they have no experience and it's like that's exactly the point the people that have experience They're dead wood, particularly in government. But a lot of people don't understand that. I wish we would actually have Doge-like people everywhere. I mean, I look at the DOJ right now, and the DOJ is just like, oh, it's the normal stuff.

Have you ever seen the show Yes Minister or Yes Prime Minister? You've got to watch it. It's a BBC show from like the late eighties, early nineties. And the whole premise of the show is the battle between the minister who later becomes the prime minister and the administrative state. so every episode is like they had one episode where they talk about uh a hospital that was built where they had five hundred staff doing administration but they didn't have any medical professionals and they didn't actually treat patients and and so it and then they would have one on education and everything else but the banter and the dialogue back and forth I share these clips sometimes

where I'm like if you want to understand what's going to happen in the battle of doge and trump trying to deal with the administrative state In Brit format, the dialogue is so brilliant and so well done, but it's also timeless because it's completely applicable to what is going on right now. I cannot recommend those shows enough Because I will put up things like, here are the ten things, excuses that are going to be given for why the Epstein list isn't put together. And it's like there's a common bureaucratic checklist. And it's like, hey, we know if we throw these obstacles out there, by the time they work through them, that administration is over with. Because these elected

politicians are temporary. We are here now. Forever. Anyway, that's a bit of a distraction, but it is timeless. When I see this stuff, I'm like, this is exactly what's going to happen. People are like, oh, you're pessimistic. I'm like, no, this has all been done before. We're not reinventing you know, the battle of the administrative state versus elected officials. This is this is like well documented in the UK has been ahead of us in terms of of, you know, bureaucracy and institutionalizing these things and in a profoundly stultifying way. Yeah. No, it's I don't think it's instructional. I think it's core. I share your desire to work in small,

high functioning teams. I've mostly worked in small companies Um, and the sweet spot for me is like. Where like small and really the smaller side of that, like everyone's, everyone's a bad-ass. Everyone's a generalist. You don't have hierarchy. Like everyone can kind of get to the table, even fifteen to twenty, maybe even better, but like, but big enough to get a ton of shit done. Um, you know, AI is probably an entirely separate conversation and a much longer conversation, but. Like I've been playing with some of these tools and I'm just so blown away. The other night or a few weeks ago, I had my kids needed help with geometry. And I don't know when the last time you've done geometry is,

but for me, it had been quite some time. And I was like, you know what, let me, let me take, I don't remember this at all. Let me take a picture of, you know, this and upload it to Chef GPT. And like, I'm like, oh yeah, hypotenuse leg. I remember this. And I was just kind of blown away at the, at the learning tools and the, the pace at which they could be deployed. And all I kept thinking was, if this is what I get for twenty bucks a month, what the hell is the power structure using and how long have they been using it? Because there's no possibility that this technology is new. And that all these companies just launched them at the same time and they were all sort of on this track.

There's no way. Particularly knowing what I know about the history of the intelligence agencies and the big tech companies. Right. So there's zero point zero percent possibility that this whole thing is organic, which opens up a whole bunch of other questions. And, you know, I think foundationally, I think you're asking the right questions. You know, I'm I think you're asking big swooping questions, which are more important, I think, in terms of a path to sovereignty and frankly, a path to happiness. Maybe those two things are interchangeable. Maybe they're not. But like, you know, the very nature of like what is money is a question I never thought about until two thousand eight.

And then only then, you know, financial thing happened. And, you know, my red pill friend tried to It was so above my head and explain it to me. I didn't get it. And then like, wait, my money in the bank is an IOU for an IOU for an IOU. And that's not real money. And the whole system's bullshit. Well, I didn't know that. And then I think at this stage, I'm sort of like, who are we? Where are we? How do our bodies work? And, you know, I think that's a little woo woo. sometimes, but that's not my nature. And I think I've been able to prove so much. I've been able to falsify so much of what I thought the book has been closed on that at this point, I just have to have a more

open mind to everything. And that's not to say I'm just going to get duped on everything. And I'm sure there are some things that I'm considering that are so ridiculous and I'm going to wind up looking really stupid about. But I guess I decided at some point, a few months ago that I'm going to start playing this out a little more publicly and I'll start writing. And it's been great because I got to say, I'm getting a lot of people commenting and sending me notes and it's, I don't know. I think there are enough people that something, something never really felt right. Right. I think that's why I shows like the main, you know, movies like the matrix or the

Truman show always resonated with people. I think deep down, we all kind of know that everything's, everything's a little bit of an illusion. We just don't know the depth of it. Or even Wizard of Oz, if you want to go further back, which was just an allegory for the financial system anyway. But you look at some of this stuff and I think it resonates for a reason. And then you just go back to your life. And the good news is I don't think anyone's going to the other side. There's not someone who's like a really critical thinker who's like, you know what? I'm going to give the New York Times a try. And I'm going to start listening to what they have to say. No one's going that way. you know,

whether this is like an engineered awakening or it's an organic awakening, there's something clearly shifting in the consciousness. And I'm up for it, man. I'm up for the ride. I think it's, I, this to me is far more interesting intellectually and fulfilling spiritually than, you know, I have friends that I see are like, Hey, did you watch the latest Netflix show? And not because they're talking about, you know, the, institutional you know parables that are implicit in it but because it's mindless dv so I don't know I'm I'm much more up for this than whatever the hell life I was living before and I know there's no going back right so but at the same time I think it's

important to stay grounded and live your life and be a well-adjusted person and really just try to surround yourself with love yep I I agree with that I think that Somehow after, and I'll share this. Did I ever show you the mind movie that I did? I don't know if I showed you that in the Brownstone thing. This is a, got into this whole idea that humans are programmable beings, fundamentally, right? And for the first seven years, we don't really have any conscious filtering. So whatever comes in, we absorb that and that becomes actually part of our identity. So if our parents tell us we're not good enough, or if we get these limiting beliefs put in, we didn't really have an

ability to sort through that. And that becomes part of our identity. And then we get into government school indoctrination, and then we have manipulation through corporations, media, all of the rest of it. And so part of this awakening was realizing, starting to question, everything and then and then doing a lot of internal work to say okay well what are my limiting beliefs and you go through this process of trying to kind of confront you know what whatever that is and to kind of let that go and when you when you go through that process you realize that anything is possible you really don't have an id your identity can be whatever you want it to be But your identity is largely

shaped for most people, if you're not aware of it, by subconscious things that you didn't actually choose. And so as you go through this process, when you are before you're seven, your brain waves are literally at the alpha state, which means, again, information just comes in. Now, right now, like we're having this conversation, we're in kind of the beta wave phase. And there are all kinds of different brain states that you can get into. And, you know, monks get into like gamma state. And there are all these kind of different brain states that you can get into. So what I realized is you can basically through either meditation techniques or doing something called biurnal beats,

where you have one frequency in one ear, one in the other ear that's slightly off. And so the delta between the two, you actually train to that frequency. So you can actually get yourself into that alpha state. And then you can actually program yourself. So you can create like a mind movie of like, here are whatever it is affirmation, but you can use a combination of sound and everything else. And so, so I started going through that process, doing kind of the meditation thing. And then, um, And then my wife and I were kind of like, we've been involved in a whole bunch of stuff. And we've been involved in these liberty groups. And I'm not going to say disparaging things about

the liberty groups, but a lot of the stuff goes kind of the same way. There are a lot of like repeating patterns. And half of it now I think is they get infiltrated. I actually think after a certain point, once something starts to gain momentum, you have – bad actors that come in and try to do things. But then I started looking at other organizations. And what I found is like, okay, is there a way to actually try to build a community that doesn't devolve into a sex cult? I mean, literally I'm like, you have NXIVM, you have Landmark, which isn't a sex cult, but it has its own different things. You have even Osho Group. So I started doing all these deep dives on all these things. It's like,

can you build a community without it devolving into a cult? And so we actually came up with a group mind move. And which I'll share not now, but I'll share at some point. And it's it's but this was like the starting point of how do we make sure this doesn't happen? where we're thinking about, well, How do we make sure this doesn't happen? And so kind of put together some like group affirmations that if you will, that you can in this particular brain state, you can reprogram yourself basically. So that's where that's where I was spending my time in twenty nineteen and early twenty twenty right before COVID. I don't have any conclusions from it other than I ended up getting into a lot of

areas with Dr. Tom Campbell, who wrote a book, My Big Toe, and he was affiliated with the Monroe Institute. And there's a whole other area of things to explore, and I don't have any conclusions about it, but it's very fascinating because you can reprogram yourself. But then once you find out that you can reprogram yourself, you're kind of like, all right, well – You're not motivated most like self-help or a lot of these. I like Dr. Joe Dispenza. I've talked to you about Dr. Joe Dispenza, but a lot of these things end up becoming like it's all about making money and manifesting money. And once you realize that you can become anything, then you realize that that's actually not.

That's that's the least interesting thing to kind of pursue, but that's what actually draws a lot of these people into it. So. So I think that there's something to that. I think that there's something to helping people realize this and helping people realize you can watch the Netflix programming. You can read or watch HG Wells stuff. You can watch The Matrix. You can watch this stuff and you can be programmed by it or you can literally program yourself. And if you can program yourself, the hardest part about programming yourself is deciding what is your actual intent And what is it that you actually value? What is your purpose? That actually became a big wandering part of it.

After realizing it's all bullshit, realizing you can program yourself, then there's really, okay, well, what is my true purpose? And that's the hardest part of it all. Yeah, I'm just going to sign up for Neuralink and tell them to choose. No, the... You, as you were opening that, you talked about the seven year thing. And I immediately thought of, um, Ignatius Loyola, who said, who was the, you know, famous Jesuit founder who said, give me the child for the first seven years and I'll give you the map. And I think it gets into a lot of the themes we've covered. Um, you know, I, I have a buddy who's like way has been for twenty-five years, way into metaphysics and

has studied at the Monroe Institute and claims to have been under hypnosis and seen his own past lives. And I have no idea whether that's real or not. I am certain he believes it. And it's really, really compelling and kind of wild to think about. And I think sometimes, particularly in the current climate, we get so tethered to the narrative of the day. And whether it's whatever the hell is going on in politics or whatever the various dialectics are, And again, not to trivialize them, they're important. And certainly some of them are more important to some people than others. And I think that's the point. But I think we need to zoom out and look at some of the bigger questions.

And these, you know, why are we here? Why do we exist? What is the purpose? And I think we get so caught up in the minutia of the mechanism and the characters that we're not, we're like losing touch with our very being. And I think it's important we reflect and really understand those things. And again, not to say I'm there, I'm the first to admit my own hypocrisy on this. And if my wife were here, she'd make fun of me because I am certainly obsessed with a lot of these details in part because they're so astonishing, right? To wake up as a middle-aged man and realize you don't actually know anything. You just know what you were taught is impossibly humbling

Um, you know, someone like me, you know, I have, I have an ego like everyone else. And you wake up and you're like, um, I've been like a successful person my whole life and I've worked really hard and I've paid my dues. And then you wake up, you're like, oh my God, I'm a Muppet in the machine. What, how, how did I get here? Right. It's the, it's the talking head song. Right. So I don't know, at this point, I, I think. I think it's like I'm going through whatever I'm going through. You've been going through it longer than me. The universe brought us together and brought other people like us together. And I think that's how community forms naturally, right? And the whole notion of

intentional community is sort of funny to me, just those words together, right? Because on some level, all community is intentional, but I don't think it could be forced either, right? So the only real community I think I have left after, this process over the last few years, like my very oldest friends, who, never agreed on anything until COVID, by the way, which is hilarious in the opposite of everyone else's story. I hear about all these relationships fracturing. There's like five of us that went to elementary school together. I have other friends outside of that, but there's a crew of people who never agreed on anything politically or otherwise. And all of a sudden, we're all in full,

not necessarily on the solution, as I alluded to earlier, but certainly on the problem. and on the depth and depravity of the deception. So, you know, that's an unusual story relative to most, and that's not lost. I mean, I feel very grateful. I feel very grateful that my family is on board, if not obsessed like I am, but certainly on board. You know, and again, I think I like going back to these through lines, right? So you look at like, trust the science. It's like, oh yeah, go back a hundred years and, go read what Julian Huxley said, because he sort of invented that idea. And I think what we're Right. seeing is the manifestation of people that have no faith.

And I'm not I'm not saying faith in a particular segment of religion or anything like that. But they have no faith in general and humanity in life. And they they're they're praying to these institutional leaders as if they're gods. And I'm sorry, but fuck that. Kill your idols. Get out. It's a sinking ship. And I I know you're thinking really hard about solutions, and I really admire that about you. And I'm thinking about them too. I haven't come up with any great ones. And I think my greatest solution is just having hope. And I get accused a lot of being really negative and blackpilled. And I'm like, I have to just call balls and strikes as I see them. And I'm sorry if your

feelings are hurt by this observation, but I'm just making an observation. Why don't you digest the information and then decide how you feel about it. And I actually feel quite the opposite. I wouldn't be wasting my time with any of this stuff if I was hopeless. I would be doing quite the opposite. I'd go to Vegas and call a I don't know, bender or something. I'm at the point where I'm just like, no, of course I have hope. And I think the way out of this is just, it's the opposite of what I now understand as the sixties op of tune in, drop out, right? really plug in plug in your consciousness and pay really close attention not not to the my nature of every detail and certainly

don't absorb all of it into your personality and you know flash all your various flags for whatever side you're on on the schismogenesis but pay attention to the detail because it matters and it's it matters not just for us like if I died today I've lived a pretty good life right I'm I'm good I I think it's more about the world we're leaving behind for our children, our grandchildren, and so on and so forth. And everyone's children for that matter. And I think this matters a lot. Oh, I think it matters a lot as well. I'll get off my soapbox now. I'm equally optimistic, and I also get accused of black pulling. But if I would say one thing that what COVID has done, and I think this is

actually probably the most important thing about it, because I too was caught up in the, oh, you know, kind of left brain, I'm doing startup stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now I look back on it, it's like, okay, it's all bullshit. And that releases a lot of energy. Once you release belief systems or whatever, then it actually literally physically, I just remember going through that process in of new creative energy. But I think one of the things, and I talk to my kids about this a lot, particularly my son, because we have a lot of these conversations about like AI and where things are going and he's kind of a techie and he's playing around with computers now and starting to code.

And I mean, he's had a lot of concerns about, you know, this whole idea of he's worried that AI is going to take people's jobs, right? And so it's just that people like often get to that. And then I started talking about the fact that, you know, we've actually conditioned ourselves to the limiting belief that our role in the world is to be a cog in economic machinery based on scarcity. That is an entire belief system, but what if there what if truly we do have abundance because some of these technologies and even some understand different understanding of the universe is it being more about energy than matter and everything else

so what if we find ourselves in a situation so people are like holding on to this well I'm not going to be economically viable if technology replaces this then I'm going to have no value in society and the best that I've come up with and by the way I don't have any answers to anything either I I have perpetually more questions, but I actually think that's the point. I think that one of the things that all of these belief systems and even the economic systems and everything, it's bred our curiosity out of us. It's completely blunted our curiosity. And I think that bringing back that curiosity, we don't know fundamental truths about anything, but what if we actually started,

as we talked earlier, started taking some of our attention and some of our energy towards exploring these fundamental questions because right now as a society we spend almost no no time whatsoever on any fundamental questions because it's either we bought into a organized religion and you know I people can have whatever face they want but I mean from my perspective I definitely believe that there's something more it's not a materialistic thing but I struggle with like are you telling me that a book that was edited, translated different times. And then there was a pedophile bloodthirsty king who appointed thirty five people to edit the word of God. That's not even possible. Right.

So then people get like hooked into, well, this is the truth. This is the truth. what's actually experience and Like, no, really explore these things. And so that to me is very optimistic. And this technology, again, if it doesn't go the technocracy route, might actually free up our ability to explore some of these fundamental questions. So we managed to talk about the Jews, the Vatican, science. Any other pillars we want to shred? The banking system, of course. But no, I think that's all spot on. An important point I want to make related to that, which is earlier you said a bunch of stuff about Epstein. And I think it's important

also to decouple What I believe are innocent, unsuspecting people with the organizations that they don't realize they're fronting for. Right. So whether, whether it is, you know, if Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad agent, that doesn't mean that all the people of Israel are bad or all Jews are bad. Whether the Vatican has been a hate organization, that's done all sorts of unspeakable crimes. It most certainly doesn't mean that any one of the Catholic faith is bad. or has bad intentions. As you get, even if you get into the secret society route, like you drive into any city in America or any small town in America, there's almost always a Freemason sign when you drive in. Most of those people who

sign up for these organizations are looking for fraternity, brotherhood, sisterhood, like, you know, to do community service and really just to do service to others. And they're probably ninety nine point nine percent really good people who are just looking to do some good in the world or find connection and long for community. And I think most of these things, I sort of believe people are inherently good, but impossibly gullible and fear-based. And all the mechanisms for the programming are all thrust upon us. And it's almost impossible to reject it unless you are aware that you're living in just this universe where you're like a pinball and you're

bouncing around in this machine and it's just sending you on all these tracks that are totally inorganic, but feel so normal and natural. So, you know, that's a really, really tough one for most people to swallow. So I've gotten to the other side of it and I find it to be impossibly liberating, right? Like, again, I don't think I'm a moron, right? And you can't, oh, you know, such and such, like tell me some ridiculous thing. I'm not going to believe it. unilaterally, but I'm certainly way more open. open-minded person five years ago. I thought I was an I wasn't because I was still stuck in my own dogmatic thinking about whatever the issue is. And I think nowadays it's

incumbent upon all of us just to, again, go to source material, like learn how to research, go to source materials. There's clearly, clearly no fourth estate. That's not even up for discussion at this point. You made a comment earlier important one that I just that I thought was a really want to go back to you. which is, you know, people, like the propaganda isn't new, right? In our parents' or grandparents' lifetime, there were three news channels. So it was through, you know, narrower filters. Even go back a millennium, right? You know, the days of the town crier, you know, hear ye, hear ye. You got up on the, you know, the stump and everyone got propaganda,

but everyone heard the same propaganda. So there was a sense of, community and understanding and a shared belief system with those around you. Whereas I would argue nowadays, we all live in our own siloed reality. It's sort of like, you know, it's the Plato's cave allegory, but we've all got our own Plato's cave that's based on our own algorithm, right? So my reality is very different than your reality is very different than your neighbor's reality. And how can we be a species, let alone a Republic, if we can't even agree on basic truth? So, you know, these are, I think we're wrestling with this fractured nature of the very existence of what we're living through right now.

Because I went to, I had to take my kids to a thing a few months ago and it was wild. It was, you know, my wife couldn't go and she warned me not to get into all my crazy shit with these parents. And I'm sitting in like a hotel bar. And I have, there's one person there who's right for the election. One person's freaking out that Donald Trump's going to get elected and we're going to be a dictatorship. The other one was this Jewish woman who was like, oh, I'm not worried about Donald Trump. I'm just have like, I'm starting to undo the floorboards in my kitchen. Cause they're going to start rounding up the Jews. Someone else was very worried about like, they're going to take away

all the vaccines and. And I'm just sitting there, I'm like, if I shared with these people any of my, they would think I'm insane. And meanwhile, I'm listening to them and I'm just, I'm hearing back last night's speaking points on CNN or whatever it said in New York Times yesterday. And I'm like, this is the manifestation of everything I'm interested in. And this is real life. This is great. And it turns out they were lovely people and we had a really nice conversation. But it was wild, just wild to live, you know, close by to people you know, in the same region anyway, and be having a completely different experience of how we're perceiving reality. Yep. I don't know what we do with that.

I don't know what we do with that either, but you did make a point, and this is something that I trouble with, but, you know, we are programmable beings, and we have the ability to wake up and make different decisions. The one thing that I struggle with is... So it's not like I'm not a we should be punishing people and like, you know, hanging people or whatever, because this is part of the learning process. But there is a there's an element of people that are order followers that are actually suppressing people's free will. So how do we call that out? Because to your point, you're like, well, you know, with the Freemasons or actually even the perfect example of this is I don't know a

single nurse that had the intention of hurting people. Every nurse that I've ever met got into the field because they want to help people. That doesn't mean that they're not part of a organized and competent structure with hierarchy and training and certification that leads to them actually injecting people with a bioweapon and doing harm. So how do we solve this issue of waking people up that believe in their hierarchy and this expert structure where it's like, I have compassion for these people because of what their intent is, but nevertheless, what they're actually doing is harmful. So how do we crack that? Because this happens... in a whole variety of, I mean, you like,

I mean, take Roger Rear's situation. I mean, I started studying the internal mechanics of the IRS, right? And it's like, and it does make me, it's frustrating that there's some bureaucrat working for the IRS that has a financial incentive to go after and target this person. And then the person at the DOJ who's leading the charge, what their job is, is to get a high profile win. And then they leave the DOJ to go and work for the defense and work for white collar crime. I mean, they're parasites. And this is like a circle. It's kind of like anything involving regulatory capture. And so I don't even know what the right way to phrase this question is. But there's a certain point

where people are like, well, don't blame them. They don't know any better, which To me, it's like, OK, how do we make it so that they do know better? Because I think to a certain degree, we actually have to call this stuff out. And if we don't call it out, it's going to replicate. And this is how we end up in a situation like COVID, where everybody just believes the experts. Everybody believes everything that they've said. How do we change that dynamic? That's a big question, and I certainly don't have the answer. And I don't know that my method has been a successful one. I try to stay very level with people and be very fact-oriented and first principles-based and show them evidence.

And if that doesn't work, I'll go one layer deeper, which is in a very kind, very loving way, scorn and ridicule. But in a way, like my father used to say, the sign of having good diplomacy skills is telling someone to go to hell and having them enjoy the trip. And I try to use that method and not necessarily breathe fire, though I want to. I have some friends that are much better at breathing fire, and that's their method. I don't know that there's any particular, I will say on the nurses thing specifically, I know you're using as a for example. I got to know quite a few nurses through some of the medical freedom work I was doing going back a few years, and invariably, they were order of

magnitude better than the doctors. In fact, a quote from a nurse friend of mine who lost her job after decades because she would not take, quote, the bioweapon. Sorry if that messes you up on YouTube. But she, I will never forget this. She said, don't get me started on the doctors because they're clueless. And she, again, I don't think doctors are bad people. I think this goes back to, I think it goes back to cognitive dissonance, right? If you are a doctor that is injecting something, and I think, by the way, that's why, I think that's why the doctors got the shots first. if you really want to think about trauma and psychology, how could it be bad? We put it in our own bodies.

And I think that's why a lot of these parents now will never come around. They will never, ever come around. I've accepted that people who were in my life, regular people in my life, friends of mine, are gone forever. Because how can you live with the idea that you poisoned your child? And then extrapolate it to other things, right? I have several friends who know I lived in the people's republic of new york city right so I know a lot of people whose kids have transitioned how how can you how can you say I made a mistake right and that's that's not to say you know my heart doesn't go out to a person who legitimately feels like they're trapped in the wrong body and I I

know gender dysphoria is a thing and I don't mean to sound unsympathetic because my heart truly goes out to those people But if you are, say, you have a ten-year-old kid who, you know, is a boy but thinks he's a girl, and the parent then says, yeah, that's fine. We'll just let you change. we'll put you on puberty And, you know, blockers and eventually we'll just mutilate your genitalia. That parent is never changing their mind that they made a mistake because then they have to live with the horror of their decisions. So that's not to say don't have empathy for those people. I've sort of moved on from trying to even have any sort of functioning dynamic or relationship with those people,

because I don't believe they're ever going to get there. I can make that subtle but important distinction. So I don't know my, my current calculus is if the world is full of sheep, then I got to go find the lions and surround myself with them. Until of course, it turns into a sex cult, and then I'll get the hell out of there. You know, I I think as well, there is that middle ground of people that I think are taking a little longer, but they're coming around. And as I said, no one's going the other way. So I don't know. I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm not quite taking a victory lap like a lot of people in our orbit may be.

I know we were going to talk a lot about technocracy, but I know we're coming up on time and we didn't spend as much time on that. But I'm really concerned about all of the manifestation of the last hundred years that I think is culminating with AI at this moment right now. But at the same time, I think life is glorious and humanity is glorious and we need to celebrate it. Well, I agree. I agree with that a hundred percent. Yeah, we didn't have enough, you know, again, this could go on for twenty hours, but we are running out of time. But we should talk about the technocracy thing. I mean, I think people are coming around, but I have to say, It looks like people are still bought into... The

biggest concern that I have is that people are putting their attention into thinking that government is going to fix things. And I actually do not think. I'm very pessimistic about... the odds that the Trump administration is going to fix any of these things. Just historically, it actually doesn't work out that way. And there are a lot of reasons, you know, let's say, you know, Elon has a two percent, there's a two percent chance they can actually cut costs and not run into an absolute fiscal disaster. They're going to replace it with technocracy. And even what's going on, we didn't get into all of this, but with stable coins, I mean, we're actually at a bigger risk of having CBDC like

surveillance in the next ninety days because of the stablecoin legislation. Biden was incompetent at actually rolling out CBDCs, but David Sachs and our crypto AI czar and everything else. And by the way, some of the stuff that's been going on with USDC and Tether for years, they're going to be able to implement that. And then we're going to have programmable digital censorable money at scale regulated by the Federal Reserve and issued by commercial banks and so I mean in some ways Biden's incompetence saved us but but but people will accept well it's not a cbdc it's a stable coin so we're standing up for American banks right it's JP Morgan Chase And people will buy that.

And I had a hard enough time explaining to people CBDCs. Now it's like another added layer and people aren't even open to hearing it because they're sold on the idea that we don't have CBDCs. So I can see getting digital IDs as a way to solve illegal immigration. I can see getting backdoor CBDCs through stable coins. Are people gonna fall for the exact COVID hoax again? No, but are they going to white knight their way into digital surveillance? It seems like it's actually a bigger risk now than it was twelve months ago. Yeah, and I think there's the Wayne Gretzky, skate to where the puck is going, not where it's been. So I see a lot of talk about bird flu and vaccines, and these are important

topics and I don't want to gloss over them. But I think to your point, I think people are awake on the lasso. And we got to think about the next one. And you know, this would be, this would map to my sort of new understanding of history that a white knight comes in, saves the day, unless you're on, you know, that you're the half the people that think he's a dictator or whatever, but like, It's funny, as I'm saying this, I'm realizing my claim to fame is that I wrote the first ever CBDC article on Brownstone, which was before you connected with them. And you've written the last fifty and I never read about it again. But this was like, I think it was two thousand twenty two.

And I was being called a crazy person by a lot of people in my orbit for even suggesting the idea of programmable money leads to a digital guru. And I was very grateful that you connected with that organization and wrote your book and you've been propagating these ideas publicly as hard as that may feel. I think it's really, really important work because they, I don't think people understand that whether it's CBDC specifically or technocracy more broadly, it essentially eliminates the most important check on power, which is human moral judgment, right? We no longer both in terms of the, you know, what we're talking about, about algorithmic control of our ideas,

but then ultimately, you know, codified, twenty-four, seven programmable surveillance system into our monetary system is like all the, it's all of the worst elements of DEI, cancel culture, like all of it. And yeah, I don't want to end this on a bummer. I think the key is like, No, let's all really, really plug in and pay attention to this. And under no circumstances can we enable it. And, you know, alternatives can be us. Let's make sure we always have cash. Let's make sure we move to alternative currencies. Let's, you know, in the best case, let's move to some sort of barter. Let's learn how to do stuff as a species again.

Let's learn how to, you know, trade with our neighbors and grow food and do all those things. But most importantly, let's learn how to pay attention. because we've outsourced our transportation, we've outsourced our food. I think as a culture, certainly in this country, we've outsourced our thinking and it's time to take that power back. Yep. Can't disagree with that at all. That's definitely true. And again, this is why I'm going back to actually exploring consciousness and going back to the fact that we are programmable and we can program ourselves. I think the original intent of Daylight before I got into the CBDC stuff, that's still the solution. That is raising awareness about awareness.

That's still the way out because implementing a new cryptocurrency or whatever isn't going to solve or fix anything if you still have people that are essentially programmed and unaware. So it all does come back to the same thing. And the good news is this is doable. So, yeah, I don't want to end it on a pessimistic note either. But at the same time, you know, there are landmines ahead. And I think people are almost more bought into the white knight thing than they were a while ago. And I feel like that's not a good thing. Just one parting thought on that, which is real change can only happen from within. And I think only if we are empowered individuals can we tap into the power of

the collective consciousness. But it has to start with us. It has to start with me, Josh, and you, Aaron, and the people in our orbit. Yep. Absolutely. Do you have any final thoughts? And then also, where can people find out more about you and find your work? Yeah, it's funny to hear, even refer to it as my work, just ramblings of some dude on the internet. But you mentioned, I've been publishing a lot of Brownstone Institute. I write at styleman, S-T-Y-L-M-A-N.substack.com. I am on Twitter, Jstyleman, J-S-T-Y-L-M-A-N. I do goofy stories on Instagram a lot.

That's just style at styleman. But yeah, I'm not, I don't know, I'm not much of a self promoter. I'm clearly interested in exploring these ideas, but I'm still trying to figure out what my role and voice in all this is. But I really appreciate you taking the time and it's always good talking to you. Yeah, no, thank you for coming on and hopefully we can do this again soon. All right, well, thank you and we'll talk to you soon. Sounds good, be well. Right, bye. I'm gonna play out a song here.

They wanna give him one of nine First investor in the game, now they want to kill his flame. Hired lawyers did it right, still they want to pick a fight. Core devs changed the protocol. Government wants total control. Attorney, client, privileged, dead. Using compliance plans instead. First investor in the game, now they want to kill his flame. Hired lawyers did it right, still they want to pick a fight. Core devs changed the protocol.

Government wants total control. Small blocks kept us paralyzed. Now they're coming for the king. Using laws like puppet strings. Spanish prison. McAfee died. Making sure Veer stays inside. They can raid the lawyers. What? They can seize the files.

Yeah. But they can't stop crypto. Nah. Running wild. Running wild. Brownstone dropping truth bombs. That's not justice.

That's a warning.