S2E8: Day 2: Roger Ver's Impact & the Power of Ketosis

Oh, darling, I'm trapped in a grid so tight. Tether USDC, they dim my light. Sax and a lap, hey, Paul's old game. Stable and genius, they fan the flame. Oh, darling, I'm trapped in a grid so tight. Tether, USDC, they dim my light. Sacks and a lamp, a pie's old game.

Stable and genius, they fend no fear. Flickering the grid, oh, we'll break free. No more control, our hearts will sing. Freedom's our vow, let freedom ring. No more control, our hearts will sing. Freedom's our vow, let freedom ring. They seem since thirties dark.

Energy credits, a dark lullaby. Social credits, creep IDs in view. Genius act past, Striebel's here too. Flicker in the grid, oh, we'll break free. BTC, XMR, Zeno, darling, you The screen's my cage,

the dollar's a chain. Every move washed, it brings me pain. Paper shadow sex pulls the line. Their circle tries to bind my mind. B to C, X to R, hail Ain't no darling, you and me No more trolls, our hearts will sing Freedom's our vow, and have no fear Flicker in the grid,

our love survives We'll dance through the dark, keep hope alive Rise up, rise up, our future's clear Break the chains, we'll have no fear They've been feeding us these lies Since the day that we were born That we

need them to protect us That we can't survive alone But baby, that's a fallacy A chain around my mind Been blinded by their promises While freedom's been denied, oh Critical thinking broke these chains Opened up my eyes to see the game No need for rulers telling me my worth I'm taking back the power that is mine by birth, yeah

The truth has set me free at last Government ain't nothing but a cycle Heading toward tyranny They militarized the police force While preaching about democracy But fuck that noise I see the truth now Voluntary system shows Another way is here Critical thinking broke

these chains Opened up my eyes to see the game No need for rulers telling me my worth I'm taking back the power that is mine by birth This fallacious belief in their control Has been weighing down my goddamn soul But I'm free at last, free at last Breaking out of their system fast No, no taxation stealing what's mine

is They want to give them one or nine. Following the legal line. Jesus paid his dues. Bitcoin. Now they try to make him lose.

Free feel. Can't silence the truth. Breaking their own rules. Free feel. Free feel. From prison to Spain. Now they doing it again. First investor in the game. Now they want to kill his flame. Hired lawyers did it right. Still they want to pick a fight. Core devs changed the protocol. government wants total control attorney client privilege dead using compliance plans instead yeah first investor in the game now they want to kill his flame hired lawyers did it right still they want to pick a fight chord dance change the protocol government wants total

Small blocks kept us paralyzed. Now they're coming for the king. Using laws like puppets phrase. Spanish prison. McAfee died. Making sure Veer stays inside. They can raid the lawyers. What? They can seize the files. Yeah. But they can't stop crypto. Nah. Running wild. Running wild. Brownstone dropping truth bombs daily.

That's not justice. That's a warning. Free Roger Ver. Okay, welcome back to the Aaron Day Show. This is season two, episode eight, and we are continuing our

Fast to Free Roger Ver series. This is day two. Welcome back. Hopefully, everybody can hear me. Hopefully, if not, somebody will put something in the comments. I want to get things off with where we are in terms of this overall process. Roger is still facing the threat Currently, of a hundred and nine years in prison. He's now been trapped in Spain for three hundred and thirty eight days awaiting extradition. And today is day two of at least a seven day fast. So that's kind of the the scoreboard. And again, as a reminder, I'm doing this as a personal effort. This is not part of the official Free Roger Now campaign. So this is just something that I'm doing on my own so

that no one confuses this as being something that Roger is directly a part of. I'm gonna follow a similar agenda tonight as I did last night, which will be similar moving forward, although there might be some tweaks from time to time. We'll recap last episode, give a kind of a general fasting update in terms of where we are in day two of the cycle. give you my personal experience with today's fast. And, you know, if others are following along, if you want to share your experiences as well, either in the text chat or at the end, if there's a live Q and a, I would love to hear from you about your experience as well. I'll talk about tonight's Roger focus topic,

which is Roger's impact on the world. And I'm going to walk through all of the different ways in which Roger has, has really benefited from, uh the planet not just in terms of crypto but in a variety of other facets and then we'll walk through action steps references and then get to kind of a group chat and q a And I do want to start from yesterday. there's one big takeaway that I I mean, think encompasses everything that we're working on, which is that it really is this idea that freedom comes from controlling our thoughts, emotions and actions. And so there is no political solution, but we do have the ability to change these three things. And this is really important because we and only we

individually have the ability. to change these things. And technocracy is a threat to this because technocracy actually wants to impose control over minute decisions on a day-to-day basis and actually infuse technology to do this. This is why that is such a threat and why I've been spending time even focusing on cbdc's and alternatives to begin with and this ties directly into fasting I think as you'll find as we go through this process fasting really does put you into focus and it's it's one area where you really do have direct control over all of these things and it puts everything into into context So yesterday, if you missed it, yesterday was the opening

presentation of what will be, you know, again, at least a seven day series, possibly much longer than that, depending on how long this is going on. And in the last episode, you know, I basically played the twenty minute Roger documentary, the Bitcoin Jesus documentary, and then gave an introduction to fasting. You know how it's been used for political activism, but also how fasting works at a high level. I mean, it really is a transformative process. And it's something that I've done for well over two hundred days. I actually fasted for two hundred days just in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three. with my longest fast so far being thirty eight days. And so I kind of outline at

a high level what happens from a physical perspective, because there are some well-documented things that happen in terms of cell autophagy and cleaning out bad cells and starting to begin to create stem cells and so forth. And so I encourage you to watch that episode because it'll provide a lot of context for the entire series. Once again, to talk about some of the events that we have coming up, my next event will actually be at Liberty Forum on April the twenty fifth, which will be in, I believe, Concord, New Hampshire. So I encourage you to check that out. I'll be on a panel with Bruce Fenton and Joel Valenzuela talking about what happened to crypto adoption. So. I think Joel and I will be

representing what it's like to still live on crypto and to still be focusing on crypto adoption. And Bruce might be representing more the pro Bitcoin side. And then the next event following that is ETH Dam in Amsterdam, which I will be speaking at, which is going to be a great event and very much Liberty focused and not Ethereum focused. If you see ETH Dam in the name, if you see ETH in the name, Don't assume that means it's all Ethereum. In fact, it couldn't be further from the truth. I know that Zeno is going to have a huge presence there as well. I'll be speaking. They'll be speaking. It's going to be a terrific, terrific event. And then right after that is going to be Rogers motion

to dismiss hearing, which is going to be in L.A. on May the twelfth. at one thirty p.m. And so as we get closer to the date, I'll maybe circulate or pin a I wouldn't call it a formal invitation. It's not like I'm inviting people to it, but to give people some of the specifics on on what to expect. But I would encourage you to book refundable tickets and refundable hotels. Hopefully this hearing will never happen and, you know, Trump will pardon Roger or the case will be dropped. But even if that doesn't happen, you know, either the prosecution could change something at change the date or the defense or the court itself, or it's an LA, earthquake and who knows. there could be an

So this thing's already been changed a couple of times. So, you know, plan, plan accordingly. And then Porkfest is coming up June the sixteenth to the twenty second. I'll be co-hosting a tent with Doug Tooman and Minera Topia. So it's going to be seven days of real hands on discussion about privacy coins and the application of privacy coins and related speakers. There is a ten percent discount code. So if you use the code daylight, you can get ten percent off your tickets. And that's it. Porkfest.com or Porkfest.org. I can't remember which. All right, so I'll start out with today's fasting update. And just as a format, what I think I'm going to do each day is talk about

what actually is going on, what the key theme is for the day, just in terms of this is a well-documented process, and it's generally pretty consistent amongst people. through scientifically And then I'm going to walk what's actually going on. in the body and then give some tips, just some pro tips for how to deal with any any issues that might arise. And then I'll share my own personal experience because I really want to start documenting this. As I said, I've done a number of I don't done a seven day fast, know how many times I've but I really want to start developing tools. I might even create a more And who knows, formal offering or create a course or something on this

because I think that this moving forward, is so powerful and it's taken me years to compile information from a bunch of different sources. And one area where I think that there's huge advantage is if you actually get groups of people engaging in the fast at the same time. Because you think about these political activism fasts where you have Gandhi, you have Cesar Chavez, you have these people that are engaging these fasts, but it's usually one person doing the fast and then other people kind of looking to that. But I think there's actually more power in a group of people. And in fact, a group of people that can then interact in a fasted state. But today's theme is that

really now ketosis is kicking in. And, you know, the fat is beginning to melt, you're beginning to see a bit of lifting of brain fog. And you're really beginning at the very early stages of turning into a fat burning machine. And so what's actually going on scientifically is, you know, you first depleted your glycogen stores, you're basically your carb stores. And so that's beginning to run low. And now what your body is doing is it's taking your adipose tissue and it's breaking it into fat in the liver and creating ketones. And then those ketones become your fuel source moving forward and I'll tell you it is a powerful clean uh fuel source once you get fully

what's called fat adapted and once you're fully optimized and running entirely on ketones you will be stunned about how much energy you have how much mental clarity you have I mean it really is something that you know I don't think there's any drug that actually matches your own body when it's in a full state of ketosis during a fast. So we're now at the very early stages of that. But if you're participating along on day two, these are some of the common symptoms that you might have or difficulties you might be encountering. You might have hunger pangs, which kind of go in and out. Again, until you are fully working on and your body's efficiently running entirely on fat,

you are going to go through these cycles. You may have a headache. you may have fatigue, you're going to start to have keto breath, and then maybe even a little bit of dizziness. So for the hunger pangs, what you can do is you can actually use sip herbal tea, that'll actually help a bit. With headaches, it's very important to remain hydrated and to add salt. And I'll say more on that. And I'll probably talk about that every day that we're doing a fast, which is You really wanna make sure, you don't wanna just drink pure water. You're gonna have a hard time with that. I mean, you will get dizzy. You will have a whole bunch of other issues. It actually can be pretty serious in terms of an

electrolyte imbalance. So you wanna focus on electrolytes and salt. um with fatigue um as your body's switching fuel sources you know it's good to go for a walk like I actually went for a walk today I didn't lift weights today you wouldn't want to do any strenuous physical activity but a nice slow walk is actually really an effective thing to do on day two ketones work when your body starts um Operating on ketones, you will get what is called ketone breath or keto breath. And so, you know, depending on your situation, particularly if you're at work, you might want to, you know, rinse with water or chew a mint that doesn't have sugar or anything. And it may be a sugar-free mint,

preferably something with... That's not like sucralose or something like that. So in any event, and then dizziness, you may have issues with low blood sugar. And if you're really new at it and it's, it's a real issue, you might actually want to have a little bit of broth. I don't have any broth. I mean, at this point, but if you're, if you're getting new to it and you really are having an issue, I have known some people that have had real serious dips in blood sugar, and that can be a problem where you really just can't function. So I've created a couple of memes that, I'm going to start building a you know, library of these and kind of circulating them and building them as a library,

but just as kind of like, you know, pro tips, you know, salt, lick it, love it. this is really salt is your friend I mean, contrary to what, everybody's been trying to Public health and warn you about salt is actually a very good thing. In fact, I just took a bit of salt. That's kind of like my energy boost. If I ever am like really starting to drag a little bit, just a little pinch of salt in my water or my coffee will go a long way. Tea is also your hunger shield. Peppermint or chamomile are really good for killing cravings. So keep that in mind as well. And then again, you wanna walk slow. So your body is cooking, your body is starting to burn fat. And so you wanna use gentle

movements at this point. You don't wanna be doing any marathons and you don't wanna be doing any really strenuous activities at this point in the process. Each day I want to spotlight one of the huge benefits, health benefits of fasting. And today I'm going to focus on the fact that fasting really is an inflammatory powerhouse. And so what happens is when you get into ketosis, um ketosis lowers cytokines and cytokines are huge inflammation triggers and so when that happens you will start to see the easing of pain and you will start to see the easing of chronic disease and I've had this happen in fact outside of getting covid um I mean for the last five

years I haven't used any medication haven't gone to a doctor and whenever I have actually been in ill health I've I've fasted and it's it's been amazing to see What's happened, I even had gastrointestinal problems one time, which was an inflammatory response. And so I actually fasted for a couple of days and that resolved it. But I've actually had issues where inflammation in my hands went away. I mean, I think brain fog is inflammation. It's a whole... You know, it's just worked wonders on literally all kinds of inflammation. And I can already tell where I was having some inflammation has already begun to subside a little bit in my knees and everything else.

And I could tell this on my walk today. So each day I'll talk about some of the amazing overall fasting health benefits. I also want to each day talk about... One of the things that comes up the deeper and further you get into a fast is you start thinking about your relationship to food and you start questioning everything. I mean, you start questioning things not but about kind of how the only about food, world works in general. But, you know, in fact, I think maybe tomorrow I might pick the top ten lies that we've heard overall about nutrition and about public health, things like the food pyramid, things like the breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Once you start digging

through these things that have been just drilled into our head through marketing or in health textbooks, and then you actually start examining them, during your own experience while you're not eating food, do the research is in actuality, what you'll find when you it's all bullshit. And there was no scientific basis for it. Usually there's some other reason for it. financially motivated or it And it was either was marketing or it was propaganda. So we'll go through that. But one of the most common is this idea is eating three meals a day necessary. Or is it a modern construct? Well, I mean, if you can guess what the answer, it's a modern construct. It actually started in the

nineteenth century because factory bosses decided we needed three squares to keep the industrial machine humming and to keep this aligned with shifts. It has absolutely nothing to do with health. It has nothing to do with science. There's no study behind this. This was literally something that was designed by factory owners and no one ever revisited it. And this is what you'll find. So if you look at something as simple as, oh, okay, do we need to eat three squares a day? Well, actually start questioning everything about how, you know, why do we work nine to five? Why is this structured like this? You will begin during the fasting process to question And that's great. absolutely everything.

And so I'm going to highlight every day at least one thing like this, where it's, something that most people have it's a, just never thought about. It's just been kind of a natural, they've just assumed it's always been this way and that it's always been this way for a reason. And then when, you know, you dig into it and you find out there was no reason and it was all just made up. the other thing is I'll talk about my personal reflections again on on my experience for for today so day two is actually one of the most difficult days of the fast day two and then maybe day three it depends on how bad your situation was going into the fast in terms of your insulin levels and where you are

and a whole variety of things but usually day two is the roughest because that's when you're really beginning this transition from glycogen to using ketones. My experience was I woke up this morning, very tired and I was hungry I was very, and a little bit cranky. And then the other thing is, which I'll talk about also in more detail, because as we do kind of a spotlight spotlight on these things, I had had kind of diarrhea. And there's an interesting thing. bowel movements aren't I mean, you know, usually a fun thing to talk about. But I will say that there is a very interesting process when fasting because you are absolutely cleaning out your gut bacteria. I mean, you this is a great way.

And the good news is you're getting rid of good and bad gut bacteria. But more of an emphasis on the bad gut bacteria. So you'll go through a period of time. If you're like seven days, ten days, fourteen days into a fast where obviously you're not eating anything, but stuff is coming out. The stuff that's coming out is kind of the really bad stuff that is in your gut biome that you actually want to get rid of. But it is a little bit nasty and it doesn't smell great. So I'm giving a little forewarning for that today. I felt OK physically. I will say I wanted to get more work done today than I did. I mean, I had a lot of stuff to do with clips and actually even getting this podcast

together and putting together some research. But I was running a little bit slower than I might otherwise. In fact, I thought I was going to present an article that I've been working on about Curtis Yarvin and Yuval Harari, but I didn't even get time to work on that today. But I did get time to take a walk. And so in the end, things were starting to perk up by the end of the day. And the walk really helped. The walk was a great way to break things up. I generally find when I get hungry, I actually try to become active when I'm hungry as opposed to, you know, just sitting there feeling miserable. I'll use that as an opportunity to, if the weather's nice,

go for a walk or I have a treadmill desk. So just, you know, I find that that actually is, you know, just kind of a trigger for me. So I feel a little bit of a hunger pain and I actually try to do a little bit of activity. I felt pretty good emotionally. I've actually felt very, very positive and very engaged. I'm very excited about this, this whole initiative. I actually think I'm excited about being able to introduce people to fasting because it actually fits in with voluntarism. It actually fits in with Roger's philosophy, my philosophy as well. I mean, this is something where you are taking control of your own health and you are really taking responsibility for, uh, You know, not eating,

but in the process of not eating, it really does focus you to do an incredible amount of self-examination. So it is a terrific thing that I think is ideologically aligned with with Rogers principles. And it's for a good cause that I think will be successful in raising awareness. I don't you know, again, hopefully I'm going to decide on Monday how much longer I'm then seven days I'm gonna do the fast I'm willing to go a pretty long way I'm hoping though you know again I hope every day that we find out that his situation is is resolved so That's how I've been today. I mean, my health metrics, my heart rate variability, I have a eight sleep bed. So if you guys are familiar with this,

but it has sensors in the bed, it measures your heart rate variability, measures your snoring, measures your sleep cycles. How much deep sleep did you get? How much light sleep? So I actually had a pretty good night in terms of heart. My heart rate variability was higher than average. The other metrics were a little bit off. I didn't get as much deep sleep as I normally get, but it wasn't anything wildly off one way or another. And if you are measuring these kinds of things, if you have a tracker, I mean, again, if you stay on top of this, as I said yesterday, you want to be compassionate with yourself. if you're finding that you are So I mean, really out of line and

then it's okay to break the fast. something's not right, You don't have to You don't have to injure yourself, especially if you're new at it and you're kind of gradually moving into it. I'm going to reiterate my reflections for yesterday, which is you want to get electrolyte powder. I recommend Dr. Berg's electrolyte powder because it has potassium and you want to do salt and coffee and then tea as well. Chamomile and peppermint are good as well. I'm not as much of a tea person, so I actually stick with coffee, but it is recommended. And if you are a tea drinker, that will help. So today's focus with respect to Roger is going to be on Roger's impact on the world.

And I think that before I get into this, this is a really important one because I have met a lot of people, including people that I'm friends with. pretty well in fact the guy uh and have gotten to know I met at brownstone and his opinion was he had this you know belief that you know somehow roger was a scammer and a lot of people have this association as roger is that he created bitcoin cash and that he's a scammer and neither of those things are true he didn't create bitcoin cash um he only decided to pick Bitcoin Cash over the other fork when he actually saw the censorship and propaganda and realized, well, there's probably something nefarious going on here.

So he didn't create Bitcoin Cash. He didn't create a scam. But the propaganda and censorship is so great that most people have never heard any of what I'm about to go through today in terms of what his impact has been on the world in crypto and beyond. So I do want to share that. And I hope people can get an understanding of this. So I want to talk about his investments and this isn't even, you're going to see three different groups of investments. I'm certainly not going to go through all of them, but it's, I'm putting this out here just to show how expansive his investment portfolio is and that he's not even just like that. Not only is he not an investor in only one cryptocurrency,

he's an investor in entire ecosystems. And then he's an investor in things outside of even financial technology. But again, it's important to know how much of a pioneering investor he was in crypto and in bitcoin in particular he was really the first retailer to take bitcoin through his own company memory dealers and then he actually started buying ads on free talk live and started promoting bitcoin to people just promoting the idea of bitcoin he's actually spending his own money to get the word out about bitcoin and then he was the first ever investor in the Bitcoin ecosystem. So there was no venture capital firms, and you'll hear me complain about this a lot, have had nothing to do with

the creation of Bitcoin. the early days and I would argue most of what they've done in the latter part have been scams and in fact if you look at that I mean you know when we had icos and defy and everything else I mean they really they weren't early and they weren't innovative they've involved with things that they've mostly been have turned out to be high profile scams where they were able to get in early and they dumped on retail but they didn't really invest into core technologies Roger invested in Bitcoin.com. He invested in BitPay, which was the major payment processor. He invested in Blockchain.com, which is a huge crypto trading platform. He invested in Purse.io,

which was a phenomenal service that I used to use. It allows you to purchase things through Amazon using Bitcoin and then later Bitcoin Cash. and then a whole variety of these other you know companies and again I'm not going to go through all of them but he was actually the first investor in ripple uh when it was only one guy and so I mean that was basically him the guy came up with the idea for ripple came to roger roger invested in it and he was the number two guy at at ripple so and this is a partial list I mean I know he's I mean he's involved in zeno he's involved in I think he's involved in zcash and multiple other privacy coins and so He's been very consistent about his ideology,

which is he believes in free markets and he believes in choice and experimentation. And so he has invested in a variety of different things with always the end goal of facilitating peer-to-peer digital cash so that people can use digital money outside of these control systems. I also wasn't even aware of this until this whole process came about with his arrest and all this other stuff. He's invested in a whole bunch of biotech companies too. So there's a list there of seven different biotech companies that do all kinds of different things diagnostics and things related to cancer and a variety of other different different diseases and so uh you know not again not going to go through them

but just to say I mean he's actually a prolific investor in in a variety of different areas and then he has some really interesting areas that are kind of outside of the box he's invested in free society Pronomis Capital, Ship.com. So a lot of these are kind of alternative governance structures. And so investing in and exploring different ways for people to organize outside of the authoritarian governmental systems that we have right now. It's fascinating. And he's invested in Draper and Associates. Tim Draper, I don't like most VCs, but Tim Draper is an OG in the VC world. And so he's an investor there as well.

Again, it's prolific and it's ongoing. I mean, he's never stopped. I mean, some people, it's amazing to me when I go to these conferences and they've never heard of Rob before or other people that are like, oh, well, he was just the Bitcoin cash guy. It's like that is actually such a small part of his entire investment strategy. And his investment strategy is not something that's in the past. It's very much active and ongoing. um roger is also a huge champion of liberty outside of investments and poor for-profit areas roger was the largest single donor to ross ulbrich's legal campaign he invested I think something like a half a million dollars into antiwar.com he invested

three million dollars in fee he invested over a million dollars in the brownstone institute he was the first donor uh and first board member to Brownstone. People don't know that. I didn't even know that when I was involved with Brownstone. So all of the work that Brownstone has done fighting the lockdowns and tyranny and the censorship industrial complex, none of that would have happened without Roger. And so people don't realize that he's just a major driving force. don't know this is that he Part of the reason people doesn't advertise this. I mean, he's actually kind of a private behind the scenes guy. He's not doing this for recognition, he's doing it because it's the

right thing to do morally based on his principles. And so but now it's important to kind of bring it up so that people understand exactly how egregious it is what's happening with this legal case, how ridiculous it is, and how they're really trying to shut him down based on on his impact. He's also certainly a thought leader in the crypto space and in the digital currency space and other spaces. And this is a partial list. I mean, there's some movies and books that he's been included in. He's certainly been on all the mainstream kind of news stations. uh back in the day uh at the very early development of of bitcoin because again he was the first investor in the ecosystem and of course

he wrote with steve patterson hijacking bitcoin which um you know when he's when he's finally free it'll be nice to see what happens when when that book kind of gets into the public because He was only starting to announce it. he was on my podcast and some other I mean, small podcasts, but just an absolutely brilliant book that with ironclad research and citations that show what happened. with Bitcoin being kind of morphed from digital cash that people use outside of central banks to this new hijacked digital gold narrative. It's a phenomenal book, and I hope everyone reads it. And I'm going to be talking about it over the course of several episodes.

I'm going to not go into all of the detail, some of the important points because but I do want to highlight As I've been going to events and people come up to me, they're unaware of the block size war. I would say ninety nine point nine percent of the people that I meet have never heard of the block size war. fact that people used to They'd never heard of the use Bitcoin to buy things. They don't know overstock and Microsoft used to accept Bitcoin. They know none of the history. I mean, I'll meet people that are like, oh, yeah, I'm an OG. I got involved in Bitcoin in twenty twenty one. or I got involved in twenty seventeen. They don't know anything about this. And so all they've heard is

the Michael Saylor and what and basically what is now pushed through propaganda and on TV. I think it's important for people to know this. I'm not trying to create an inflammatory situation. Although when I put this information out, there aren't likely many Bitcoin maxis that are going to see it because they've all blocked me. So that's not too much of a concern. But in any event, now that governments are pushing these strategic reserves at the national level and the state level, important that people I think it's really understand what's going on. To me, I don't think Trump knows what's going on. I don't think RFK Jr. knows what's going on. I know he became a big advocate of Bitcoin.

at the bitcoin conference last year I don't think that they're doing this maliciously because when I look at it how would they have known the alternative opinion no one has been talking about this except roger and roger was literally silenced the minute it came out so so it would be a fluke for anyone in Trump's orbit to actually find out about this information based on the way that it's been suppressed. I've tried to do my part to get the information out, but I mean, I have a kind of a limited, I have a limited audience. And again, a lot of you listening to this have already heard all of this, but when I go and talk, when I do presentations, when I travel around the country,

most of the people that I'm talking to are not already converted or even involved with crypto. So it is really eyeopening. I actually gave G. Edward Griffin a copy of hijacking Bitcoin. And I talked about hijacking Bitcoin at the Red Pill Expo and just a lot of other really interesting health freedom events where there's almost no intersection between crypto It's actually kind of and health freedom. interesting where you'd think there would be a natural... alignment, but yet it really hasn't permeated that much. So again, he's a thought leader, and I think it would be great for people to really start to understand these things. He's also a great humanitarian. And I want to say, again,

a lot of this stuff I didn't know about Roger. it's not like I'm best friends with I mean, Roger. I saw Roger speak at a conference thirteen years ago. That's what got me into this. I mean, I've certainly talked more to Roger kind of after all of this than even before. so I didn't even know most of this but a lot of the stuff is done behind the scenes he's also a great humanitarian who has helped countless people that were in distressed situations either personally or he's also helped a lot of people like I mentioned before ross olberg people who are targeted unjustly by the government and it's all all behind the scenes so I'm going to play a video of just some of the people

that Roger has directly helped from a humanitarian perspective. People don't even know how it's been done or who is even doing it. But to be honest, he's one of the key figures behind all this success. Roger has helped me in the past, but I didn't really know him like that well. I hurt my knee. I tear my meniscus and find out with MRI that ACL has also taken a pretty bad tear. Biggest knee surgery you could possibly get pretty much in jiu-jitsu. Roger, out of the woodwork, without asking for anything in return, this guy offers one hundred percent to pay for the surgery. Like, not even as a sponsorship, doesn't ask for anything in return.

he helped me out big time when I So yeah, needed it most. Roger is a generous and a good man. My program empowers women through technology and Roger's support has been impactful. He provided financially where we were able to train women to learning skills. Roger's support has been critical to our community. Roger Veer is a close personal friend, has been for a long time, and is one of the most ethical people that I've ever met. I was also a victim of lawfare back in twenty fifteen in the state of Nevada. And Roger selflessly helped me out and never wanted any public accolades for it. And I know he's done that for a lot of other people, too.

Mr. Veers, I think second year in Antigua, he was giving out laptops to school kids, cell phones to school kids. I can tell you personally because I was the one transporting them. I went to him to ask him for a donation to give out some Christmas packages to the poor and needy here in Antigua. And Roger said yes right off the bat. It was so big. The news here in Antigua, it was the biggest Christmas package drive ever in Antigua. And Mr. Veer wanted to stay fully anonymous. But now, because of the circumstances, I'm proud to say that he was the hammer behind that nail. My husband, Nathan Freeman, got very ill suddenly.

And just before his passing, he was defrauded of our entire savings by somebody on the internet. And right afterwards, Roger Ver showed up like a hero and gave us money to help, try to help my husband live. And since then, he's helped me put my kids in school. And without him, I really don't know what or where I'd be right now. He didn't need to do any of this for us. It's a very pure-hearted gift. We know him to be a genuine guy, a guy who's interested in the next generation. You will have to say this is someone who has people at heart. He's a positive force in the world and deserves freedom. He has so much more to do for this world.

I feel that someone like this who feels so strongly about helping others deserves not to be shackled. He is one of the good men left in this world. I'm proud that he's my friend. It's definitely a travesty what's happening. And I've met some of those people, and that isn't even, again, all of it. And so most people are completely unaware of any of this. And I wasn't aware of any of it until some of it. Most of it's brand new to me, but I've run into a couple

of these people at conferences, and it's just amazing. One of the guys there actually interviewed me. I was at Monerotopia, and he was interviewing me about the Free Roger thing. And we're actually at Monerotopia. And he's like, oh yeah, Roger helped fund a project to rebuild a roof for a senior citizen center. That was like within walking distance of the event venue. It's just like this complete random thing and it's all over the world. It's in Africa, it's in countries everywhere. And so with no recognition or no kind of rhyme or reason to it, he's just very, very generous and helpful. I also have more testimonials because as I also have found this, a lot of people that I know,

he's actually helped to support many people that I know and respect who have become leaders in the liberty movement, in the ANCAP voluntarist movement. You know, Roger actually supported a lot of them very early on. And I didn't know that either. So I'm going to play a series of clips from some other folks as well. I want to say this about Roger Ver. I've followed his career for since very early on, since probably two thousand thirteen, and I recognize in him something that is a distinct mark that I've come to recognize in others. It's an unusual trait. He's an idealist and a

humanitarian above all else. He got infected by the idea of human liberty and universal emancipation, prosperity and peace. And he got there by reading the books of Henry Hazlitt and Frederick Bastiat, a voracious reader and scholar. and came to adopt these ideals. And my read on his career and his life has been to pursue those ideals above all else. That's what he longs for. That makes him a very unusual person. It's very unusual to find an entrepreneur and a business person who is deeply,

deeply principled and motivated primarily by those principles alone. I can recognize it in some people, and Roger definitely has that gift and that longing, and it's a very beautiful thing. So that's my tribute to Roger Ver, who I think is a great man. Thank you. Hello, it's Joel Valenzuela. I've been in the crypto space for about twelve or thirteen years, been living entirely off of crypto for the last almost ten years. And a lot of this is because of the inspiration of Roger Ver and what he's been able to do to not only kickstart the crypto ecosystem into something that is actually usable for people like me. I rely on a lot of tools and

things that he helped kind of usher forward and build, but also as crypto sort of turned into this technology where a lot of people just seek profit and government approval and things like that, Roger has been a constant north star for why we should really be here, for peer-to-peer cash, for uncensorable money, for human freedom and the benefit of everyone. And without him in this space influencing it the way he was, I really think that we in the crypto space, but also we as humans on this planet, would be in a very much worse spot. It's really hard to overstate Roger Ver's positive impact on the space. Free Roger Ver. One of the best people I know. The man has funded surgeries.

He has done things for people behind the scenes that people don't even know about. He's the most charitable individual I know. He's funded so many crypto projects, it's just unreal. Just an all-around good human being. I really can't say enough about the guy. He essentially was giving a speech about Waco and how the ATF burned seventy, eighty women and children alive. You ever seen the movie Patriot with Mel Gibson? Remember the scene where Yeah. they burned a bunch of people alive in a church? That's literally what happens in real life. The ATF and the FBI burned a church of Seventh-day Adventists alive. Women, children, men, the whole thing. And then they stood on top

of the charred remains of the bodies and took pictures. You just can't make this shit up. The government is just evil. But Roger was talking about this at a campaign event, and there was an ATF agent in the audience. And they held a grudge because of this. And Roger happened to be selling fireworks on eBay. And he wasn't the only one, but he was the only one who was ever charged. They just needed something. obscure law about moving They charged him with some explosives by mail or something like that. Sent him to federal prison. The time comes out, and he's like, they're after my ass. I got to get out of here. If they can do that to me, what can't they do to me? renounces his citizenship,

he goes out of the country. He has a bunch of lawyers to file all of his exit documents, his tax returns, the whole nine. He goes, lives his life, starts a bunch of companies, very successful, kills it, promotes all these ideas, very charitable. Ten years later, the government comes back and says, hey, remember when you left? You didn't pay enough. You got the number wrong. we're going to give you a So for that, hundred and nine years in prison. By the way, this is right after he wrote a book called Hijacking Bitcoin. And what it does is in the book, Rogers, they call him Bitcoin Jesus because he was always the premier promoter of Satoshi's version of Bitcoin.

And he wrote this book, Hijacking Bitcoin, where he exposes the government's role in keeping blocks small. And they did that because they knew that if it was not usable as a medium of exchange, it would not be a threat to the US dollar's monopoly. It would not be a threat to the banking cartel's monopoly on the issuance of currency. So Roger wrote this book exposing their role, crippling Bitcoin, hijacking Bitcoin. And as soon as he does it, they're just like one hundred nine years. Hey, it's John Bush with Lit Free Academy. I wanted to give a quick shout out to Roger Ver and just share a bit about the impact he has had on me. He's just, I mean, I was in the Bitcoin space

starting in twenty twelve and then more heavily in twenty thirteen. And it was always cool because back then, of course, it was all about freedom. And peer-to-peer electronic cash for the world and upsetting the Federal Reserve and ending the wars. But I always thought it was cool that some of the key figures were Roger Ver and Eric Voorhees who were both like peer voluntarists. And one thing about Roger, he's extremely passionate, even getting emotional about how unjust he believes things are and how deeply he cares about freedom. He's also extremely giving. He's somebody that sponsored my activities, whether it's the Bitcoin bus, later called the Bitcoin.com bus,

that he sponsored for us to travel around the country promoting Bitcoin, or sponsoring the different events we've done, even the first Greater Reset. He was always extremely generous with with his wealth and he is a tireless freedom fighter and I think it's up to each and every one of us to do what we can to spread the word and hopefully help free Roger Bear. I met Roger in twenty fifteen when I started working with him at Bitcoin.com. During that time I got to know him personally and I knew right away that Roger was a good person. All he wanted to do was seek as much economic freedom for the world as possible. And while doing this, he would help anyone that he saw who was in need or

in dire straits. For instance, our mutual friend Nathan Freeman passed away several years ago, and Roger has been there to provide support for the family ever since and still supports them this day, financially and spiritually. Also consider Ross Ulbrich. Roger was one of the first people to donate to Ross's campaign, and now Ross is out of prison and received his pardon. Overall, Roger is a great person, a good man, and he does not deserve to be in the position that he is in today. What happened to him is a miscarriage of justice and a travesty. We need to get him a pardon ASAP. His impact has been massive.

So there you have it. I mean, that is a, that is a sampling and those are all rock stars as far as I'm concerned. And I'm very grateful that, uh, for the five of them for actually sharing those clips. Cause I have a lot of respect for, for every single one of those guys. That was Sterling Lujan at the, at the end. If you didn't notice, he's, he didn't, he didn't say his name, but you know, when I clipped this, obviously I'll put the names on there, but he is, uh, I've had him on my show. He is really at the absolute cutting edge, uh, network states. I have tremendous amount of respect for him as an author and for all of the activities that he's working on. Hopefully he'll be at Porkfest.

John Bush is also doing phenomenal work with the Live Free Academy. I've actually participated in some of his events and You know, he's doing a lot of work with intentional communities and introducing people to alternative currencies. And he works with Derek Brose as well, who's another phenomenal, phenomenal guy. And then you have Joel Valenzuela, who is a true OG when it comes to living on crypto. I mean, he predates me by four years. And so I always look to him for kind of like what's on the cutting edge. I've learned a lot and continue to learn a lot from him. And then of course, Jeffrey Tucker, who's obviously a rock star and Brownstone has just emerged from nothing to

being kind of the most impactful organization in terms of getting people together and putting out information and challenging really important the narratives on all these great issues. And so that's just, and other than the Jeffrey Tucker clip, I actually got the other four clips today. Actually, I just reached out to people and said, I'm doing this thing on Roger's impact. hey, And so this gives you a sense of just today scratches the surface of what his impact is. And so the problem that I have with this is when you see people in crypto, I mean, frankly, most people in crypto are scammers. And if you look at these cases that are getting dropped. I mean, a lot of these are kind of, um,

they're speculative you know, whatever, adventure adventures or whatever, but, but Roger has been, uh, principled and, and promoting the values of, of economic freedom and voluntary interaction, uh, with more consistency and effectiveness than I would say argue anyone on the planet, which is why it makes the lawfare against him that much worse. And so I really hope, and this is why I'm doing this whole effort, that we're able to get all of this information out and some of these snippets and things that people haven't heard of and to get it out there on as many social media channels as possible so that people in the Trump administration uh become aware of of what's going on as well because

again you know it's not this was biden era uh lawfare this happened they they they convened a grand jury in twenty twenty four even though this was for stuff going back to like whatever twenty fourteen they didn't actually decide to move forward until after biden signed the executive order this is all biden era stuff So the important part of it is, I mean, I can get frustrated with the Trump administration on a variety of things for a variety of reasons. But to me, the clock is ticking. They need to not let this one fade away. And once Trump's first one hundred days are over, I mean, he's going to start losing political capital. That's just the nature of the game. So this is why, to me,

it's urgent that we. get this content out and that we get more people in front of this. As I said, on Monday, I'll talk more about how much longer I'm going to fast and maybe some other things that we can do. But we really want to get a lot of information out broadly before the hearing date on May the twelfth. And again, hopefully that hearing never, never has to happen. So again, the calls to action are if you haven't already signed the open letter at freerogernow.org and share it with your friends and family. I mean, you can retweet it. You've probably noticed this, but links don't work well on any social media platform. Every social media platform now wants to keep all of

the traffic contained at their site. So they don't want anybody going to third party. This is why when you see my tweets, I'll put free Roger now and then in parentheses dot and then org. It's so that it's, you know, so it doesn't get completely shadow banned. But I don't know how many people actually, you know, know that or take the trouble. I've actually found I will DM. I mean, over the months, I've actually DM a lot of people and reached out to people in groups on Signal and Telegram just because, you know, if you post something on social media, maybe one or two percent of your followers will find it. I actually talked to a guy that started a company called Pickaxe,

which is an alternative social media company. And he said that it's his understanding that Facebook actually has a cap. uh of three percent so you on facebook cannot reach more than three percent of your followers you now would have to actually pay to buy ads to boost the post your own post to your own audience so we really are kind of fighting an uphill battle here. I would plan to attend the hearing again, I'll, you know, next week, I'm going to put out more information and kind of formalize this and try to organize this. But it's important to put out a good showing for these things. It does have it does have a real impact. And it's important that the government understands that

that we're not going away and that we're going to continue to raise this as an issue. I don't think the Trump And again, administration is intentionally ignoring this, but the more you learn about Roger and the more this information gets out, the worse it's going to look that they keep on delaying this because we're actually approaching a point where he's been stuck in Spain for almost a year. I recommend if you can join the fast and what I might do if I expand this out is, you know, I'm not trying to raise any money, but what I would like to do is get people to indicate how long they fasted for and maybe put together a counter and maybe we can build some momentum around

total number of days fasted. Please share this podcast and other related content. In fact, if you could even do that now, I've been shadow banned the last couple of weeks, like my traffic's down. Eighty, ninety percent. And you can create and share your own content and you can do whatever you want with my content. I mean, this is not, I'm not selling this. I'm not monetizing this. There are no sponsors, but the whole reason I'm doing this is to get this information out. So by all means, use my content, share your own content. If you've got content you want me to share or include in these presentations, I'm happy to do that as well. And then lastly, participate in the live Q and a,

I don't know if anyone's which is going to come up next. going to participate tonight. I hope I am for, I am is going to, I haven't talked to him. I've got withdraw. I haven't talked to him in weeks. It seems like, cause we've both been traveling or whatever. Um, I normally do this podcast on Thursday and now I'm doing it every day as part of this fast. I mean, I'm realizing, you know, Monday's not a great day. I picked Thursday for a reason. And, uh, You know, these other days are, you know, But if you can like and share. less than. But what I found, so I was doing AI clips of the podcast from last night. And I had Dan O'Neill on. And I don't know if he's going to be able to make it

But Dan has lost over a tonight or not. hundred pounds fasting. And so he was sharing his story and his experience. And actually, his clip and his kind of testimonial through the Q&A was actually the number one clip based on how the AI ranks it based on a variety of different dimensions. So it turns out the conversation part of it Particularly because it's authentic. There's no scripting. It's just people having a genuine conversation. Some of that content is the best content. And I'll make clips of that. And I'll share those clips on X and Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and LinkedIn. So everything that happens here, I've got queued up into a system. So I'm just trying to get

this information out. So I would really encourage you to participate, particularly if it's to talk about or share something related to Roger or... if you're participating in the fast or if you have questions about the fast or, and one of the things that's going to come out of this, like I said, I'm in day two of the fast, but two days from now, I'm going to have like ten times the amount of energy right now. Like it truly, when I wasn't joking yesterday about, When I said that, you know, like if I were to do this fast for a month, I would do a year's worth of content in one month because that's just how fasting works. That's what happens when your when your brain starts

fully operating on ketones. You have energy, you have mental clarity. And one of the things that comes out of this fasting is you really start questioning everything. So I wanna have questions, like this idea of, all right, three meals a day, or the idea that breakfast is the most important meal. Every day I'm gonna bring up topics like that. And hopefully that'll spur on other conversations because I think that's one of the benefits of fasting is that it wakes people up to the reality that most of what we've been taught, most of what we've been programmed is bullshit. And so I think those are the kinds of conversations that, you know, if we have them, we'll be very, uh, Very informative.

So with that said, I think if anybody wants to pop in, I'm gonna share the StreamYard link right now. If anybody wants to pop in, I'll add you to the stage and we can have a discussion about any of this material or any other related material or technocracy related CBDCs. Again, initial fasting references, I'll compile over the duration of the fast, a whole long list, but Dr. Berg, Dr. Alan Goldhammer and Dave Osprey are probably the three, the biggest ones. And, you know, it's mind blowing when you look at Goldhammer because he's been operating these clinics that do forty.

day, uh, monitored fasts and just some of the results they've had in terms of, you know, stage four cancers that go away, blood pressure, diabetes, the whole nine yards. It's just, it's remarkable. And I really am of the opinion fasting is kind of, um, the biggest threat to big pharma and the healthcare industrial complex. I don't care about what Maha is going to do to, you know, collect more data about the existing broken system. Like literally people fasting and getting out of the way and letting their own body heal will probably do more, more value than, than, than what they could do. So with that I'm happy to make this a an open discussion and if anybody has any comments if you

want to share the comments as well um I see here you should look up dr jack cruz turns out it's all about the light he's a big blockchain enthusiast yeah I've been watching a lot of his stuff recently I mean I think he is a bitcoin maxi hopefully you know he can be convinced around that but he's in he's in el salvador uh but I've watched some of his stuff and yeah he is he's been spending a lot of focus on light and I agree with him on light I you know I've noticed you know if I'm out in the sun it is just it's a game changer um you know I used to think that it was walking it was the actual walking that made the difference but if I walk on my treadmill it has you know no impact

But if I walk outside, it makes all of the difference in the world. I mean, it's just a night and day and the sun. memes that he's put out And I've seen some of the there where it just shows the relationship between the amount of light you're getting and how hungry you are. So if you're out in a lot of sunlight, you're actually not going to be as hungry as you might otherwise be. And he's also pushed a lot of other things, red light, which I also already do. And he's a big fan of... blue blocker glasses and he's actually talked a lot about the fact that uh um you know our monitors and everything that the fact that they admit blue light is actually by design and it's part of kind of a

control system and so I do recommend checking out uh his stuff I you know I'm I I haven't you know delved into all of it but he he had a really good uh interview with Danny Jones, I believe it was. It's like a four and a half hour podcast. Danny Jones has some really interesting guests, but I recommend that you check that out as well. He also was on Danny Jones with Callie Means and tore apart Callie Means. This was before RFK was selected as HHS. I see in here, I'm planning to try to four day fast in the near future, but I'm in Columbia and it's more difficult to source the electrolyte powder. Yeah, I mean,

I can imagine that is the case. I don't know if Amazon is an option, but, you know. Yeah, the electrolyte stuff is key, although salt is actually the most important. You could probably do a smaller fast with just salt without all the electrolytes. You know, what's fascinating, and I learned this from Dr. Berg, is... we all have a massive potassium deficiency. And mostly if you have cramps or something, somebody says, oh, eat a banana. But when you look at a banana, a banana has very little potassium in terms of even relative to what your daily recommended amount is. Not that I treat the FDA allowances with a lot of credibility, but you have to eat a number of bananas just to

hit what the threshold is. So most people are not getting the right amount of potassium. So that is the real advantage to the electrolytes is to make sure you don't run into any of those kinds of issues with cramping or whatever. But salt, I mean, I've done fasts that are just water only. And I wouldn't do it again. I think I was just kind of pushing I mean, the envelope and just kind of testing where I could go. Because for those that are new listening to this, I mean, I didn't just do a thirty eight day fast. I started with a one day fast and I mean, then I did a two day fast, a three day fast. And so I built up to it and started to get familiar with it.

I will say this now having AI, I mean, as I'm going through and even preparing this, I'm kind of like reviewing what I've already done in the past and then using AI to kind of augment, you know, providing, explaining to me what was actually going on in more granular detail. Scientifically, it's really going to help me put out not only better materials, but it's going to help me improve my fast. I mean, just as an aside, when I did the thirty eight day fast, I was intending to do a forty day fast. And the reason that I stopped was because of my teeth. I mean, what happens is you need so much water. I got to the point where my mouth I mean, was so dry and the taste in

my mouth because of the ketones, because when you're in ketosis, you know, you produce that's one thing. Brace yourself, again, I mentioned it earlier, for ketone breath. I mean, you might want mints or something, particularly if you're in public or in a work environment. But I'll tell you, on day thirty eight, that was the part I just I couldn't sleep. And it wasn't because of hunger. It wasn't because of anything else related to the fast. It was because of what was going on in my mouth. Now, this time around, I've actually bought a, you know. a thing to really help with, you know, cleaning, doing an extra job cleaning my teeth. It's kind of a good opportunity to actually, well,

I'll go through that. I mean, there are a whole variety of different things that can happen at various stages of a prolonged fast where you're, whether it's you're helping with skin or you're helping with other areas. And so, so anyway, Chris, it'd be great to, you know, great to have, Great to have you join the fast or if you just do a fast on your own, that's fine. I highly recommend it. And I hope you can get electrolytes. I see Dan is here. Hey, Dan. You're muted. Hey, Aaron, how you doing tonight? How are you? Good. Good, good. So I'm guessing that you didn't get vaccinated so you can get your Krispy Kreme donuts. I did not. Unfortunately, unfortunately.

And, uh, was wild, especially from a health point of view. Oh yeah. I mean, there's no, there's no doubt about that. You know, I, I should, I should do polls about fasting. I even wonder how many people are like, I will tell you, oh, this guy's nuts. I mean, even people that follow me, oh, he's doing a fast. I, I think, I think for most people it's, it's, it's foreign. Although I think intermittent fasting. We have, I am for, I am. Oh, good. There he is. Hey, how you doing gentlemen? great how are you fantastic um been busy but um I got my uh dr berg electrolytes here but um thank you very much for inviting me here

how you doing dan good how you doing tonight good real good real good aaron I I'm sorry I just you just brought me in here and you you gentlemen were talking continue sorry Well, we're talking about with twenty twenty. Why the wild times of twenty twenty? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I should have been in cryostasis during that moment. I'm just kidding. Yeah. No, we all should have. No, it woke a lot of us up. Yeah. Right. So I was thinking of. Now, when you have an autoimmune disease, we'll say psoriasis. The Lyme's disease,

I would actually consider to be some sort of autoimmune possibly too. A long-term fast would actually reset your system and beat a lot of these autoimmune responses from your system. So that's another fringe benefit of that also. Well, as I said, in one of the slides today, one of the benefits of, of getting into ketosis is that it actually stops inflammation because it really stops the cytokines, which are what trigger inflammation. So that's actually something that starts pretty early in the fasting process. And then the longer you're in it, I mean, there have been examples and I even showed my kind of before and after the last time I did a fast and I'd never even,

I wasn't even paying attention to my skin, but it was like a, you know, I, I, the pictures, the before pictures from two, and the after pictures from like, and it was like, my skin was, was ten times better and I wasn't even focusing on, on my skin. So it, it's, it's absolutely true that it helps with skin, it helps with teeth. It helps with everything. I mean, it actually also helps with cancer, which they don't want you to say, but of course it does. Because why wouldn't it? Your body is in a mode where it's going to get rid of the things that are unnecessary, preserve the things that it needs, unlike the medical system, which has the approach of, hey, we're going to give you chemo,

which is going to poison everything. And we hope you make it through. And if you make it through, we hope we kill the cancer cells. That's actually kind of a backwards thinking, which is why it hasn't worked, by the way. But I suspect, and I think we all probably suspect that that's by design. There's a lot of money in chemo. That reminds me, I know a while ago, I used AI to give me a table of all of the different brands of chemo and all of the different, which big pharma company was behind it and how much money it was. And I'll tell you what, that's an eye-opener because you don't hear about that, right? You hear about, well, this drug is this, this drug is that, but you don't hear about

even though as big as cancer is in Chemo, terms of an expense, ton of different drug it turns out there are a companies behind it and they're making billions of dollars every year. Yeah. Having been on keto for off and on for several years and getting into ketosis, it's amazing what it can do for the brain, the brain fog. and all the other benefits that you talk about, Aaron. And by the way, I really commend you what you're doing here as a protest fast for Roger. That is an amazing thing, and for you to be on here every night talking about it and bringing it to our

upfront consciousness of what he's going through, I really commend you for that. your efforts here. I think they're, um, it's the right thing to do. And, uh, I, I, it's kind of funny too, because I was just having a walk with my, We like to walk the dogs and, and, uh, my wife. these trails that are close to the house. And, and I said, you know, I, I need to go back onto a fast kind of clear my clean myself out, get back on either some kind of keto or carnivore diet or some kind of mix like that. Um, and, and clear the brain and, and, and, and just get back to a, a healthier lifestyle again. Um, cause I've noticed the difference from this past year.

And, uh, it's funny, you know, you are doing this and I was just having that conversation with my wife last week, who by the way, is a, is a cancer survivor. And, um, And went through a part, you know, surgeries and radiation, but not the chemo. And fasting was a big part of her, you know, her fight for that cure. I think and believe wholeheartedly that it's the right thing to do. And I've always been an intermittent faster, you know, and that helps. But that doesn't quite get that. What is it called? The cytokine storm.

What was it that you called it again, Aaron? it's when you get into full ketogenesis, Well, I mean, you're able to – the ketones go after the cytokines, and the cytokines are what trigger the inflammation. And I don't know at what point – I mean, I guess according to Goldhaber, day two is where it starts to kick in. But I'm like you. I did the intermittent thing, and it is interesting – what actually controls all of that because you can be full keto, but if you actually are under exceptional stress, you're not in ketosis. I have, well, I'll show not on this episode, but I have those, you know, strips to that. And it shows, shows you what it wasn't. Yeah. And I was,

See, the problem with me is, I mean, I go in like sprints, like, and when I get involved in something, then I tend to ignore my health, which is what's happened with me in the last six, six, nine months here. Cause I've been just like, Oh, we got to stop CBDCs and now we got to get Roger out. And it's like, so then I stopped paying attention as much. And then I actually had a knee injury and I was traveling all the time, which is, which is tough when eating, although I I'm gluten free and I never eat added sugar anyway. but I'm like the brain fog But I'm like, yeah, Um, and everything. So now I'm like, you know, incorporate the fasting maybe I should just into what I'm actually doing.

And in fact, given that what I'm doing, if I had to summarize it, it's forget all the politics, forget everything else. thoughts and actions and emotions, If you can show your own then that's the whole game. That's the whole game. And that's what daylight freedom... That's why we started Daylight Freedom. I didn't start Daylight Freedom because I wanted to fight CBDCs. I actually went through the fasting and then meditation And that's what I wanted to and everything else. introduce to people. And then ended up like, well, if we don't stop technocracy, not even going to be able to exist. then this other thing is And now... No, I'm like, hey, maybe we put it together.

Maybe this is the way to do two things at the same time. Because there are a lot of people that will say, well, fix the money, And fixing the money is not fix the world. going to fix people's consciousness. It's not going to fix people's programming. It will help in some areas, but it's not enough. Oh, we might actually have... Sal Viagra's join us. Oh, wow. A big fan. Fantastic. Oh, me too. Let me see. Yeah, me too. Oh, he's great. Boy, the video you did too, He's great. with everyone giving their, you know, kind of dedication and, and thoughts on Roger, um, uh,

such a tribute. Um, yeah, my, you know, my kind of personal story when I first heard about Bitcoin and, and the whole crypto space, um, uh, I didn't act or jump on it right away, but I was trying to save a company. And that's the kind of thing I used to do was work with turnaround companies. And it was too busy. But I remember early on listening to videos that, you know, going to YouTube and seeing Roger Ver talk about Bitcoin and long before the you know the fork wars and um and so this is how I feel this is he's he's able to

articulate exactly how I feel about government and about the the use case for bitcoin and peer-to-peer you know transactions um and no third parties he was able to articulate the the stance that we need to take and the fight we need to take for liberty And so, you know, I want to say I was listening to him twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen in that that area, that arena. So he he and Voorhees was another one of my favorites. And, you know, I said, wow, this is these are my peeps. This is how I feel, you know, on the political matters and and certainly matters

of the state as well as matters of of how money should be free from the state. And that was the beauty that Bitcoin was introducing to the world was we could have sound money without the state. And there was no better champion to talk about those things other than Roger. And still to this day, and like you've said over and over, and many have said, you know, Aaron, that, That's why they're going after him is to shut him up, to quiet him, to put him in a spot where he is unable to speak because it would be bad for his court case or whatever,

which is the same thing as locking him up. It's probably even more cruel because you don't know when that door is going to swing open and it's a SWAT team and say, okay, the extradition is happening now. And what a horrible way to live. Of course, being in a cell is worse. But it's a fine line between the two, isn't it? It is, I mean, I'd expect that anticipation and as each day goes by. And I think that there's an intentional terrorism aspect to it. I mean, in the sense that, I mean, McAfee was his friend. There's an interview online where Roger interviewed John McAfee. So to arrest him and actually throw him in the same,

it wasn't the same cell, but the same prison that McAfee died in, you don't think that was by design? And then Roger actually had a video where he talked about his experience in prison when... Oh, here we go. Here's Sal. Hey, Sal. What's up, guys? How are you, Sal? Good. Can you hear me okay? Yes. Big fan, Sal. Big fan. Big fan. And I as well. Aaron, man, Me too. I really pat you on the back for everything that you're doing to raise awareness, man. You are... You're doing the Lord's work, as I said earlier when we were chatting. Well, I appreciate that. I'll tell you, the more I get into this, I mean, I didn't know Roger that well. I was introduced to Bitcoin and I mean,

I've had some interactions mostly about politics over the years. But the more I've dug into this, everywhere I travel and every time I meet somebody that's interacted with Roger, it just becomes kind of more soul crushing that he's in this situation. Just in terms of people he's helped. I mean, not just the crypto. This is why I did this episode tonight was to try to explain that, you know, the multiple facets of this is humanitarian work, his work supporting people in the liberty community, his work individually supporting people that get terrorized by the government. It's just it's just incredible. And it's it's tough because we were just talking about this before you came on how, you know,

I'm going to Liberty Forum. to speak on a panel and the panel is like what happened to crypto adoption. And I'm on there with Joel Valenzuela and with Bruce Fenton and Keith Ammon was supposed to be on. He's a state rep who's a Bitcoin maxi and he backed out when he saw I was going to be on the panel. And I'm sitting here like, you know, thirteen years ago at Liberty Forum is where I heard about Bitcoin and I heard about it from Roger. Bruce Fenton learned about Bitcoin In fact, from Roger. And the whole electricity was we're going to be able to stop all of this violence, central bank infused violence. We're going to be able to actually provide economic freedom for the world.

And there was electricity there. And now I'm going to Liberty Forum and the talks are about, oh, we can do a Bitcoin strategic reserve in New Hampshire and how we're going to use Bitcoin with BlackRock and the traditional financial system. And it's just like, what happened? We need Roger back. We need Roger back. It's absolutely insane the way the community has shifted over the years. But Roger has been like the sort of pillar in the movement that sort of helps weigh us all down. He certainly saved me during the block wars from maximalism. I didn't really know which way to go. And after talking with him, it was clear to me what the right answer was.

And of course, I got a tremendous amount of pushback from that. But I felt that he was right. And I still feel that he was right to this day. And I think that is why they are going after him so heavily, because he was the only one who ever actually understood truly what was going on. And I think that's what the whole war on crypto, which we which content creators in the crypto movement, the old time people have actually been talking about is coming for a long time. It's here. And we see that with the Crypto Six and the attacks on Tornado Cash and Roger and all the other different controversial figures in the crypto movement. This is all a coordinated attack by the state to

protect the banking cartel. And we saw it coming from a mile away. I think Donald Trump is sort of a little bit more On our side, then Joe Biden and Kamala were. So I'm hoping that they throw Roger a bone here because, you know, they were talking about, I think Trump had a tweet today about like the war, like something about, maybe not a tweet, whatever you call it on Truth Social. I don't actually use that platform, but he put out something today about like the war on crypto or something like that. And I had a quote tweet, well, If you're serious about ending the war on crypto, step one, buddy, free Roger Ver. Bitcoin Jesus, come on. Yeah, I mean, you know,

I exited politics a while ago. I mean, I ran for president, but that wasn't, you know, for real. But I was glad that he pardoned Ross. But the one thing that concerns me about this is that On the lawfare front, they seem to have basically said, OK, if you do a meme coin, you're OK. We're going to let you on. But they haven't dropped the And so so Ian is still in prison. criminal charges. Roman Storm's still facing forty five years. So they haven't done anything on the criminal side. And I'll give give him a little bit of time and some patience, although I don't think he's only going to have so much political capital for so long, which is why I think it's important to try to elevate

Roger's situation further. The difference between the Hawk to a girl and the meme coin scammers and people like Ian Freeman and Roger Revere was Ian Freeman and Roger Revere were actually voluntary. So they were taking this from a principled perspective. They were actually using counter economics to create a better world. And the Hawk Tour girl was just trying to, ride around and look pretty and you know, take Instagram pictures. So they don't really give a shit if you do that. But if you actually pose a legitimate threat to the government's hold on things by promoting the ideas of liberty and freedom, now that could be a serious threat. And that, to them, is an actual problem. Right. Agreed.

It is. And we have to worry about, you know, I wrote an article about this. I'm pretty worried about the Trump administration. While they came out against CBDCs, stable coins are backdoor CBDCs and they are accelerating those. If you look at the stable bill and the genius bill, it's all KYC. It's all, you know, it's all more compliance. digital dollar and it so we're going to end up with a I mean, doesn't really matter if it's issued by Jamie Dimon or if it's issued by Jerome Powell, it's actually worse in some ways. I mean, I hate the Federal Reserve, but I'll tell you, as much as I hate the Federal Reserve, watch what happens if the government's directly issuing a digital currency

because all of the surveillance and all the programming comes from Congress. They're the ones that put in the Bank Secrecy Act. pushing for that. The Federal Reserve isn't That's actually generated by Congress. And so I'm worried about that because still when I go to these conferences, People are not talking about peer to peer digital. Again, I'm going to Liberty Forum where Roger introduced people to this. And I'm on a panel of what happened to crypto adoption, even though Bruce is the main speaker and there's a whole main track about crypto. None of it's about actually using crypto. And so if that's what Liberty Forum is like, I mean, other I just look at a conference with five

hundred people in New York. this weekend. And this was, it was more of a health freedom conference. So most of these people weren't into crypto, but I would have people come up to me and it was like one of two things. And I, and I would tell you, this was, I mean, if I had written it down, it was, um, half of the people are like, Oh, well, they've never heard of anything other than digital gold. They've never heard anything other than Michael Saylor or, uh, They think that it's going to be XRP and Stellar Lumens and the quantum financial system and some other bullshit, you know, Q-level PSYOP that I can't believe has as much traction. Is it Nisar, Jasar? There's going to be a Jet Jubilee,

Dead Jubilee. And I'm like, oh, my God. But literally, that was like half of the people that came up to me at this event. So, like, there's a big disconnect. for the people that are on this you know us on this panel now and most of the people listening like oh yeah well we've been you know fork wars and everything else and it's like once you get outside of of our bubble it's really scary what the perception is While people have woken up, I think there's far too many that have gone to sleep on the evils of the Federal Reserve or all central banking. And that was one of the kind of things that lit the fire under our asses to do something or to get involved in the crypto space.

And as you know, personally, as an agorist, you know, that was my feeling was, hey, this is counter economics. This is counter economics. One on one. This is where we should be. And when that story is is now lost, on purpose and sequestered on purpose, like, you know, Roger's book, The Hijacking of Bitcoin. That's where we're at today. And I wonder, I wish you could almost take a poll of Trump's inner circle on the crypto side of the world. And I wonder how many of them are big blockers or how many of them are small blockers. You know, and I'm sure it's lopsided. if there's any, you know, big block.

Or if they know. Or, yeah, or if they know, yeah. They might never know what that is. Most people don't know what it is, but related to kind of Roger's case and looking at kind of the position of this, I mean, just whatever, use AI and find out, look at who the donors are to Trump's campaign and who's in that inner circle. I mean, you look at the Winklevoss twins. you look at the people that are I mean, surrounding him and they're mostly maxis. You look at RFK Jr., who has all of a sudden come out as a big Bitcoin maxi. Well, his running mate Shanahan, her boyfriend runs a lightning network company. So where is he getting his information about big blocks? Where's he getting his

information about the block size wars? Like I don't think RFK is, I think if RFK is presented with information, he will change his mind, but it's like, where would he have heard this from? Cause Roger hasn't been able to talk to anybody about it. And I try to talk to people about it and no one I know has heard about it unless they've heard about it from me. Like literally there isn't, there hasn't been any other source because Roger's been shut down. I mean, and I'm talking about outside of kind of a Liberty thing. If I'm at a, Brownstone event or a health freedom event or doing some of these workshops, none of them have heard of it. Although I would say I was distressed.

So the enemies of the state thing, Dan, at the Libertarian Party, I was surprised at how many people didn't have crypto, didn't use crypto and hadn't heard of Roger. Like that was actually... my jaw dropped about that. Like I had some serious, I mean, well, I still profound questions about what the libertarian party is. It certainly has nothing to do with libertarianism, but man, like the younger generation is like, there aren't young people using crypto for peer to peer commerce. Roger was a libertarian candidate. And I believe two thousand four. And one thing that he has in common with McAfee and Ian Freeman is their free speech absolutist. And they're probably the

best activists I've ever seen. They're so knowledgeable, so brave, so courageous, and so honorable and generous, all three of those guys. Now, John was probably hunted down. Ian was purposely poking the bear on the radio every night. and calling these guys out, the FBI, the DOJ, because he knew they were coming after him. He knew they were setting them up. And Roger, in the two thousand four debate, when he was running for Congress in California, he pointed out the ATF and the FBI with Waco. He called them jackbooted thugs. And apparently that's what

led to him spending a year in jail for the firecrackers. So this is just Right. obvious lawfare that's been used against roger for a long time ian uh john is dead from it and um that's one thing I um you know as far as the libertarian party goes um you know roger used it as a platform and I think right away he realized that um you know this isn't going to work um for many reasons but um you know I think as a platform and getting a message out and That's a good message for that platform. But anyway, as far as activism goes, those guys are my favorite. And I can't wait till they get out.

Well, the war on crypto, it doesn't just... Obviously, I guess you can start it with putting Ross Ulbricht in jail for two life sentences plus forty years. Thankfully, of course, he got out. Guys like Richard Hart, the Tornado Cash people, Roger Ver, I don't care how controversial they are. The fact that the SEC and the state think that they have the right to tell people what they can and can't invest in is insane. But it's much bigger than even just the attacks on everyday individuals. Like Aaron was just talking about CBDCs and... how stable coins have been sort of co-opted and stuff like that.

And I think that that is another sort of, what's the word I'm looking for here? Black swan, I guess, that's just waiting to explode on us. Now, I know you, Aaron, were working on something. It might be too early for me to ask you about, but I had sent you a DM earlier because I was so excited when I learned about it. From some of the guys at Zeno, you're working on a gold-backed stablecoin called Karma. Is that correct? I am. I am. And there are some... I'm not... As I mentioned to you... Should I not ask you about it? Well, you can ask me about it. There are some things... I had a perfect... I had a really... I love the way that I had designed kind of rolling this out.

And we're having some difficulty with Zeno with getting a point of sale vendor. We were trying to get now payments. There are questions with something like this about how do you issue the coin? And it's about legal liability. Like I wanna roll this out where I don't immediately get thrown in prison for the rest of my life. And it's a fine line on how to do that. And I had mapped out an intricate way to do it. And then it's kind of been slowed down a little bit, but I will be able to talk about it in a couple of weeks. Because what I've found as I've done these workshops across the country is the problem for merchant adoption is it's twofold. One, there's not a real easy to use point

of sale system. And that's for a whole variety of reasons. Companies like BitPay have become over-regulated and then companies like AnyPay were run out of business by the FBI and whatever. But the other thing is merchants don't want to manage multiple cryptocurrencies and they also can't deal with the price volatility of crypto. And so to me, the reason I came up with Karma was, OK, I get now what the problem is. So the problem is small businesses in particular, they also know that the dollar is useless and that it's lost twenty six percent of its purchasing power. as well but that still is less volatile than most cryptocurrencies and so and they can't use bitcoin because of transaction fees

a variety of other issues but if you could combine the store of value of gold with the convenience and privacy of xeno where you could actually redeem it for physical gold that is actually kind of a home run and the way some of these point of sale like the way now payments works is you put a widget on your site and you can take hundreds of different cryptocurrencies, but they have a swapping service called ChangeNow. And so what happens is as the merchant, you pick the one single currency that you wanna get paid in. So you can accept all these different currencies and they do a swap behind the scenes so that you get paid in that one currency. And so what was looking promising was the ability

to use that as essentially the distribution point For Karma, because that's actually, I signed up CannaSense, if you're familiar with them. I onboarded them to NowPayments with the expectation that they would be taking Zeno and that eventually they would want to use Karma on top of that. I've got a whole long list of merchants that actually want this, but I now need a point of sale system with a swapping service to make it happen. Otherwise, if I'm issuing and selling Karma directly to people, then now I've got to deal with KYC and all the rest of it. Well, all those attacks on point-of-sale networks that you were talking about, BitPay, AnyPay, they even came after Coinbase Commerce.

That is also part of the war on crypto. And we were just talking with the Libertarian Party. Look where the state targets their fire, And yet that's where you can right? tell who's being the most effective. They're not going after... uh libertarian state representatives and they're actually making friends with libertarian uh you know party arcs and stuff like that it's it's the agorist it's the ones who entrepreneurs who they're are innovating and the going after and those are the people they're attacking because it's those are the people who are making the most difference so yeah absolutely man be safe take it take get all your you know cross your t's dot your i's Yeah,

but it's powerful when I can roll it out the way that I intend to roll it out. Like I said, there's already a long list of merchants. I'll be in line for it. yeah the important part of this is it's about enabling commerce I want to enable commerce to be able people to be able to engage in using these cryptocurrencies to do trade and I I you know I know you're a big fan of xeno as well there's so much that can be done with xeno and marketplaces and everything else like it's just it's a phenomenal phenomenal technology so um anyway I'm excited about it and I'm excited about pork fest too xeno guys are going to be there and Hopefully, you know, my hope, my profound hope is that

Roger's out and that Roger attends Porkfest. That is actually my, you know, my kind of my goal on this. I, you know, I don't we'll see how it how it goes. But like that would be ideal for me to bring back the twenty twelve energy, except now with privacy coins. Right. Right. Privacy marketplace. If we could do that, then now we're talking again, because otherwise I don't even want I'm not even excited about. I don't know what I wasn't going to go to Liberty for. actually. In fact, I didn't buy tickets. I wasn't going to sponsor. I wasn't going to do any of this. And then finally, Joelle reached out to me like, hey, do you want to be on this panel? And I'm like, OK,

I can't pass up being on a panel. But then I got pissed off about what the panel was, because the sides are, you know, are you on the Bitcoin strategic reserve side or are you on the actual using digital currency for peer to peer commerce? And like the fact that there are those sides and the fact that I had to be brought in because there was no one else to represent that. That's what actually pisses me off. Yeah, well, Roger, what, has a hearing in May coming up, right? So it's feasible that he could be there by June. What city is the hearing in? It's in L.A. It's in L.A. It's in L.A. It's at one thirty p.m. on May the twelfth. So, yeah, I'm going to fly from Amsterdam.

Sixteen hours, hopefully get there in time. But I hope he gets out before. I hope the case gets dropped or he gets pardoned or something before. I mean, you know, but who knows? That's not very far off. May the fourth? May the twelfth. Oh, twelfth. May the fourth be with you. Do you want to hear how horrible the DOJ is? You know what they're trying to do? They're trying to claim that Roger is a fugitive. Because he is fighting extradition. They're actually saying, oh, you're fighting extradition. So they don't want to have the hearing. And they're calling Roger a fugitive, which, of course, he's not by currently even currently bullshit. That's insane. So, yeah, I just like they are.

They just get lower every time. And it's just like there is no lower moral bound for these people. And you have the same people that are in those positions just because the figurehead changed like Bondi and Trump. The underlings that are handling these cases are still in place and still fighting the fight that they were given. Just so they can have another notch on their belt. Forget the scales of justice. That's the deep state Trump was supposed to be excising. It's those underlings, those pictures on the wall who just live there forever and collect a pension after forty five years of doing the same bullshit.

Well, I hope it gets accelerated. I haven't seen anything good come out of the DOJ yet, but I guess maybe it's still early. These are the same people who have been sitting on a list of Epstein's clients by their own admission for five and a half weeks now. Pam Bondi said five and a half weeks ago that the Epstein list was on her desk. Well, where is it? So if they're such low lives – that they will sit on a list of pedophiles for five and a half weeks. There's nothing that these people won't do. They're the bottom of the barrel. That's why they're in politics, of course. Yeah, no, of course. And so now it's like, so how do we... So what they will elevate is sudden call if you attack a

we're going to all of a Tesla dealership, you're now a terrorist. So we're going to put that at the top of the pile. And we're going to ignore Epstein. We're going to ignore half-assed. We don't even know what you call the JFK thing. I mean, that was such a – I wouldn't say it's a disappointment. It was expected. Or whatever news of the day will take our attention off of the Epstein list so we can go look at something else. Meanwhile, they're attacking people like Roger Revere. It is literally the epitome of evil. Going after good people and letting the worst of the worst skate by. Yeah, exactly. And what's the latest on Ian's case? I know the breakdown as far

as they didn't appeal the conspiracy, which was sad, but where's it at right now? It's in front of the judges to decide on the appeal? Yeah, we're supposed to hear any day now, right? I think, Dan, wasn't it... In fact, isn't it supposed to be like literally... three weeks or something after the hearing. I mean, we're actually upon the date. But I mean, my read on it was, I mean, it seemed like legal malpractice because he's serving a number of concurrent sentences. And the one that's the longest is conspiracy to commit money laundering. And his lawyers didn't appeal The that claim.

So they went after the smaller claim. So it's like, OK, well, if you win those, then the one that's actually determining the you'd even address that and length of his sentence, get how stupid this is. Their rationale behind it was that when you file these appeals, you're only given so many pages. And so they ran out of pages arguments that they fought and they thought that the were the most important fights, even though even with this stupid system, you can actually fill out paperwork and get an expansion so you can fill out more pages. His lawyers literally didn't even do that. So I'm not sure how this can be a good outcome. There's some theory that if they overturn the other stuff,

then it's like six out of the seven charges. And so therefore, if they drop six out of seven, they'll have to drop the whole thing or do a retrial. I'm not sure what basis of law that is. I don't think that's even an argument, but maybe I'm wrong. But it seems to me like I don't know what a possible good outcome could be here. It seems like if the amount of... If the amount of space you have to actually make your argument is limited, that would seem to be a pretty obvious violation of due process. So, I mean, if that's not the case and it was just an error by the legal team, then of course it's malpractice. I think another thing going on in the crypto world is unlicensed businesses are being,

people are getting jail sentences for not registering their Bitcoin business. There's nowhere to actually register these businesses. Am I correct? That's one of Ian's charges. And there was nowhere in New Hampshire or anywhere. There's no regulatory committee. The Congress never even made a law. So we have these non-government organizations, I guess we call them, that create laws or they create legislation or whatever they call it. And then they throw people in jail. I think the Chevron case should be Now, pretty important to a lot of these other cases. Shouldn't that reverse a lot of things, especially in Ian's case?

Or am I just getting a little too conspiratorial here? Well, that's if his lawyers made the argument. And if they didn't bring up the conspiracy to commit money laundering claim, then... then it doesn't matter what Chevron says. It's not like they're going to go out of their way to do the homework on Ian's behalf. So yeah, the Chevron thing should be beneficial, but I'm not confident that his lawyers are looking at that. I could be... I sat in the I mean, look, hearing and then I actually played... Hornberger's analysis, a little twenty or thirty minute talk, and it just doesn't seem great. What's the best we're hoping for? A retrial? I think that's the best case scenario.

A retrial on the basis of the fact that because six out of seven of the things they should retry the whole thing. were overturned, That's the best case scenario. One of the... One of the things we talked about on World Blockchain Roundtable, that's with Greg and Joe wrote from Dragon Chain on the Chevron case. Greg was mentioning that it almost has to be. I don't want to use the word tried again in court, but challenged in court. So that another judge rules on the Chevron case as being a reason for dismissal or reason for the

appeal or something of that nature. So then other cases, it sets somewhat of a precedence. So it's almost like there's an extra step in a situation like this. with the Chevron deference case after the Supreme court has ruled it. The Supreme court has made the ruling, but that doesn't mean that all of these preceding cases now are immediately overturned. They have to be challenged before judge. It's going to cost a lot of money. And, and so it's before we see a big difference between, It's going to take a few years, I think, for that to actually play out in the courts and set a new precedent.

And it's unfortunate. That's how our legal system works. Another reason for this state shouldn't exist. Pardon my ignorance, but what is the Chevron case and how is it relevant to Ian's case? Well, the Chevron's case basically states that agencies and by the way, it goes back to Chevron, the oil company, that the agent, essentially the legislation did not. The laws that were passed were not specific or detailed enough. And these three letter agencies in this case, the first one was an EPA ruling. that the agencies were creating the policy and the

regulations that were not detailed and formulated within the law. And the legislature basically punted to these agencies and said, well, you're the expert in the EPA. Oh, well, you're the expert in the SEC. And so they deferred that expertise offer. decision-making and policy writing and regulations writings and enforcement to the three-letter agencies, which gave them an amazing amount of power. And I think it's also by design, by the legislature not wanting to be that detailed and accurate in the legislation and the bills that are Right. So so in Ian's case,

I'm not as familiar with it. And I'm trying to remember the gentleman, Aaron, you'll probably speak to this where that would apply to him. But it has something to do with the his ATM machines. And this was it wasn't a money exchange thing. All of the regulation written by some bureaucrat at the SEC or something like that, rather than by Congress or the New Hampshire legislature. You know, I've been arguing for a long time that Congress has no authority to delegate their constitutionally designated responsibilities to another branch of government. You know, all of these three-letter agencies, these demagogues, it's sort of organized under the executive.

So all of these powers get transferred from the legislative branch to the executive branch, which is a perversion of the founder's original intent. So I hope that that's the case and that they can apply that here. Yeah. So that's exactly what the Supreme Court said. You just expressed what the Supreme Court ruling was on the Chevron deference case. So the New Hampshire situation is even worse because my understanding is legislature actually passed the New Hampshire a law that says you don't need a money transmitter license. in new hampshire and then ian had actually gotten an opinion letter from a lawyer stating that he didn't need a money transmitter oh my god where

the federal government came in and actually trounced over the state and and so I mean you know it's kind of like roger's case too this is a situation where you have you have two people that actually tried to comply with the idiotic laws or rules, if they're not laws, and still were set up and railroaded. So it's very frustrating. Sounds like it's going to be over on the Tenth Amendment ground. It should be, I, unfortunately, you know, so it's a federal case and Ian ended up with, you know, he picked a criminal lawyer in New Hampshire and, and, you know, New Hampshire does not, I've been in enough legal stuff here. We do not have lawyers that play at the federal level. So he actually just,

his lawyers were not the right ones for the job. Sad, sad. So. Yeah. Um, I, um, My hope is that somebody will, and it's not going to be Elon, is going to whisper into Trump's ear and get his attention to look at this case. If Trump knew the facts, I would think that, but then he would pardon or give an order to dismiss the case against Roger. But where's the political capital? Because he's all about political capital. What's the pro and the con for Trump if he doesn't or doesn't do it?

Well, he could say, well, hey, look, I'm the guy who ended the war on crypto, right? That's what he's saying anyway. So at least he could actually make good on everything that he's claiming to do. If you bash the IRS, you're quite popular. People want to hear, you know, their president is a horrible IRS employee. I think what the sticking point here is and what is absurd about this is this thing with tariffs and make America great. It's the fact that Roger is not a U.S. That's actually probably the citizen. biggest weight against Roger. I think if Roger were a U.S. citizen, been dropped. it probably would have already But now he's sitting here saying, oh, buy a gold card,

a gold visa for five million dollars. And then tomorrow is when our reciprocal tariff. you know, thing goes into place. Right. So he's so busy playing that card that that goes against that part of his narrative. So he can, so he's, he's ending crypto lawfare for Americans. And so even though Rogers taxes were from when he was an American, it is absurd. I don't think he has, I don't think he loses political capital because, by pardoning Roger. But I think the other complication is he has people that are surrounding him that are Bitcoin maxis. I think if he actually understood what Roger has been talking about, then his family wouldn't be investing in Bitcoin.

If they actually understood, there are a lot of decisions they wouldn't be making. Or Ethereum. Yeah, or Ethereum. But how do you get that information? I've tried, by the way. We got to go through Barron. I've tried through some people and I've actually, the response that I've got back is, I was trying to warn him about in fact, Tether and Howard Lutnik. I'm like, this is going to be, this is like the big short two point. You're like setting yourself up for an absolute disaster. And so I was going to people close to Trump saying, Hey, look, you know, could we get a meeting with people? And it's like, well, you know, there's really no, they don't want to hear that.

They don't, it's kind of like, he doesn't want to hear bad news. I don't know what you do with that. There's going to be another book that's going to come out, The Hijacking of Bitcoin, but it's going to be The Hijacking of Rumble. in my opinion, because Tether is now invested in Rumble. I don't know what percentage of their shares they own. And now that Rumble is publicly traded as well. But the hijacking of Rumble is going to happen. The censorship is happening. It's going to get worse. And it's being controlled just like Bitcoin. And you can see that coming a mile away. Okay.

And actually, I talked to somebody who's like, oh, hey, I can get you on my show. We can get, you know, sixty thousand views for this and so on and so forth. And I'm like, OK, well, how can you do that? He's like, well, you know, the network that I'm a part of. So he's part of a kind of a maga leaning network, has a relationship with the CEO of Rumble. And so they have that kind of top down control over the algorithms and what actually gets reach on Rumble. That is actually Rumble, Rumble. It's kind of another one of these freedom of speech, not freedom of reach plays. And there's a lot of top-down editorial control by the management at Rumble. And that is unfortunate with

respect to the Tether investment. As far as confidential layer goes, can Roger, if he gets out, or could he advocate for that to the Bitcoin maxis that don't like him at all? And would this be a way to bridge that gap? They're too stupid to see the opportunity. That's the truth of it. They actually don't understand the opportunity in front of them because they're so blinded by number go up and their get-rich-quick team. It's my honest opinion, unfortunately. Aaron, when you talked last night about Bitcoin, I had no idea that the transaction fees were that low because there's no traffic on the network.

I was shocked. If that's foretelling maybe of the future of Bitcoin too, and it's going to create a price problem. the transaction fees dropped to Yeah, no, eleven cents. There was a point a couple of weeks ago where the blocks were not full. I mean, when you're talking about one megabyte blocks and your blocks aren't full and people are not understanding the implications of what that means for miners and what that means the next having. There's no economic way for the system. They destroyed the underlying economic model. The whole point of the block rewards was to provide time to build the security of the network. But the whole economic model was based on fees, on transaction fees that

assumed large transaction volumes. And that's been absolutely crushed. And no one cares. Right. Well, there you go. Tether's just going to print some more. Lepnick or whatever his name is is going to give the order to Tether to print more Tether to inflate the price of Bitcoin some more. Well, that's why I'm so excited about Zeno, to be honest with you, because not only... it's sort of like, you know, I had Joel Valenzuela on my show like a week or two ago and he said, it sort of checks all the boxes. And I thought that was a good way of putting it because I mean, confidential layer, you can sort of tokenize real world assets. I mean, it's, which is incredible.

If you think about the implications of that and trade them in a, unregulated fashion you know as from an agorist perspective this is like this is like the holy grail we've been seeking something like this for a long time and there's been other candidates who've come and gone who've tried to do things like this and failed but xeno is the first time where it sort of really feels like uh it's actually happening so you know that combined with all the other use cases it's it's the first one that I'm really excited about since bitcoin cash Yeah, same. I mean, and I've actually been involved in tokenization. When I finally realized that there was no political solution, I was like, all right,

let's figure out how to use blockchain technology to intermediate in all of these other areas. And I actually spent more time with Ravencoin because I like some of the ideas. Patrick Byrne had talked about, I mean, he built this Medici Ventures thing and it was, you know, this blockchain tech stack of human civilization and everything else. And, yeah, But it's on a, you know, Ravencoin is on a public network. And so it's transparent. And so it's going to be fall to the same fate as Bitcoin. But yeah, when I saw Zeno, I'm like, wow, okay. Because I've been tokenizing assets on Ravencoin and pushing this for a long time. Like, yeah, this is actually the solution for this.

And you can think about creating alternative stock markets, alternative healthcare markets. I actually, I have a list of, You know, money only makes up five percent of global assets. But I have a list of all of the other categories, all of those other categories for the application of this technology. It's mind blowing. And over the course of this fast, I mean, I'm going to start talking about I mean, I'm not going to be talking obviously, about Roger every every night and, you know, all these other aspects. Part of it was to. highlight the things he can't talk about that I was already talking about anyway. But I mean, but to go into, the thing with Zeno is

people don't understand tokenization. Most people in crypto think of tokenization as being NFTs and meme coins. And they don't realize that Larry Fink, I mean, I've got the quotes in the videos, they are tokenizing stocks and bonds and our mortgages, but they're doing it in the same way that they're doing CBDCs where it's top-down, it can be programmed, it can be censored, and it can be tracked. And so- Tokenization is going to happen whether we like it or not. The choice that we have right now is are we going to go to the Zeno path or are we going to go the CBDC tokenization of everything path? And the fact that most people in crypto, when you go to crypto conferences,

the people that have been negative about Zeno are like, well, I just don't see any use for tokenization. It's like, well, I don't even know where to start about how far back they are in understanding. Whether you like it or not doesn't matter. It's happening. I wrote an article years and years ago calling for the use of tokenized securities and assets to break FINRA, which essentially is a cartel of stockbrokers. And I thought, well, you know, if we can start trading securities and assets in an unregulated fashion on the blockchain, well, this cartel can go to hell because this drives up the costs of the security and it sort of is an entry to barrier for capital.

And it really has a negative effect, a cascading effect. People don't really understand that. And then through Roger, I met This guy called Gabriel Cardona, who was the head of R&D at Bitcoin.com for a while. And he used to talk about... What's that? Yes, yes, yes. Those were amazing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, of course. He used to talk about the Tocambrian explosion, like this like coming explosion of different tokens and all different sort of aspects, content tokenization, medical tokens, real world assets. And now with Zeno, it actually we actually have a chance to like really bring to fruition. And it's just it's again, it's like it almost feels

like two thousand and thirteen in the crypto world again. it does it absolutely does and that's and I hope this is why I hope porkfest uh you know we kind of ignite ignite that it'd be great I mean if roger's there it'll obviously accelerate that but but no matter what I mean last year uh my son and I were were introducing people to to zeno but but the wallet didn't really allow tokenization yet or he just launched you could just start to create tokens but No, everything can be tokenized. And depending on what scale, you can even get involved with micro transactions. I mean, there's it opens up all business models and opportunities. But I do want to say one thing that really that does

upset me about what's going on with the Trump administration is it's the similar thing. It's like, OK, meme coins are legal. And so and so you have people that are sitting there saying, oh, yeah, man, we're pro crypto. But you still can't a small investor still can't invest in a small company without paying fifty thousand dollars for the legal fees going through this FINRA, you know, cartel that you mentioned that hasn't been changed at all. So you know what? Hey, you know what you pours? You can play the lottery. But you can't invest in an early stage company that might make a million percent return. You can't do that. We have to protect you against that. But we will allow you to

participate in the absolute Ponzi schemes. I mean, that are actually structurally by design. That makes me very frustrated because when I started my first company, in the mid-nineties, and I ended up raising money from a whole bunch of And I had to go through individual investors. spending all this time with the SEC paperwork in each state. You have to fill out blue sky law. And I'm a young entrepreneur. I'm just trying to figure this out. And that's been a goal of mine is to disintermediate. the SEC and everything else. But the thing is, if you do that, it wipes out venture capital because venture capital, I mean, they're useless. I mean, they really are protected by this system.

If individuals could truly invest directly and companies could raise capital, you would not see much purpose for the venture capital community as it exists today. It's a parasite class. We wouldn't need them. Exactly. We wouldn't need them. It's all about parallel systems. You know, you just march forward and go down that different track. You don't, you know. I mean, think about if you could tokenize a business, you know, into, you know, like you said, like you're talking micro transactions onto like small little granular levels. Like, yeah. even like a car or like, you know, a Picasso painting could be tokenized and you could own a piece of a Picasso.

But like in terms of like market capital, it was sort of like flood the market when everybody would be able to sort of enter into what is now sort of only reserved for, you know, upper class Americans or, you know, financially well-to-do individuals. So of course, like the government, it was like you said, they will allow you to like get robbed, even though their stated purpose is to protect investors. You can go, you know, invest all of your life savings into the hawk to a meme coin. But Ian Freeman, who sets up a crypto ATM, he's the bad guy. So it really is hypocritical of them to say that the war on crypto is over or that they are ending the war on crypto when they're sort of,

doing nothing useful and just sort of letting people get robbed by these meme coin scams which I'm not opposed to if you want to invest in meme coins you know that's that's your prerogative but uh don't you know allow that sort of nefarious behavior while going after good guys like roger and ian Yeah. And it's and it's a big distraction. And part of the problem is, you know, a year ago, people were worried about CBDCs. Now people aren't worried about CBDCs and they're not realizing that they're cheering on the thing that they with stable coins that that, oh, it's three trillion dollar stable coin industry. It's like, what? Why are you cheering that on? Are you are you patriotic

about the idea that the United States is going to have a surveillance digital currency? Like, are you are you on that? Are you on Team America dominating surveillance? Like who who does this? And if a coin's value is tied to the whims of a central banker, it is by definition unstable. So like you really need like we, you know, they call it a stable coin because like you said, it's really a CBDC. Like stable coin is the propaganda term. But really for a true stable coin, it has to be sort of linked to something with real market value. Yeah. And so now my job is that So we're going to get stable much more difficult. coins faster than we were going to get an official

CBDC because Biden was incompetent. Unfortunately, the Trump administration, they're not incompetent. And actually people from USDC, which just filed to go public today, the guy that actually developed their digital dollar strategy and their whole rollout strategy for Coinbase was was in Trump's Treasury Department for his first term. He was hired by Steve Mnuchin. So the ties here with, you know, with Tether and USDC and my prediction is based on the stable and genius bills, what essentially what that sets up is The only people that are going to be able to issue stable coins are large regulated financial institutions. So what's going to happen is JP Morgan is going to buy Tether.

Goldman Sachs is going to buy Circle. And then we're going to be sitting here like, what, cheering this? I mean, like, then all of a sudden, billions of dollars in stable coins. There is hundreds of They are issued. And now everybody has surveillance digital currency. We've taken our existing currency, but it's not as easily programmable. which is digital, And we've made it more programmable. And then we've cheered it because we call it a stable coin. Again, that's why Zeno is such a killer coin here, because it's sort of the antidote to all of these surveillance coins that you're talking about. Zeno is the antidote. It is the antidote, and it even makes Bitcoin and Ethereum and Bitcoin

Cash private and easy to use. But I mean, to your point, are people going to sign up for it? Are Bitcoin maxis going to appreciate it? The reality is most Bitcoin maxis aren't against Roger. It's actually probably like ten people. Because most of the new people that are Bitcoin maxis don't even know. They're so oblivious to any of the history behind this that they're not angry at Roger. They haven't read. They'd probably be surprised. I mean, I will tell you, I have converted many Bitcoin maxis just because they literally didn't know. Or they heard, oh, well, somebody told them, oh, well, you know, Roger's a scammer or something. It's like, oh, OK, well, did you know this,

this, this, this? And then and then when you Did you know this? actually write them the facts and they're willing to look at you, you can't do anything. I've had people write me, though, like I've lost my whole friend group. Because of this, but I can't, I can't go against the facts of this. I mean, I have some really interesting DMS, but, uh, but if you think about it, hijacking Bitcoin, no one has refuted it. There have been no factual, uh, disputes what they've done is they've just blocked everybody the maxis have just blocked everybody and they've disengaged there are people that say oh you know my friend's going to do a podcast on this we're gonna we're gonna lay out

all of the falsehoods in the book no one ever actually went ahead and did that they just kind of they just decided well let's just not talk about it and it'll go away and the book you know not sort of not only did it implicate maxis it also implicated the government and which of course their response was just boom jail Like, sorry, we're not going to dispute anything that you've said against us. Like, yes, okay, yeah, we definitely had a role in, you know, limiting the block size, but, you know, we're not going to talk about it, just write to jail. And, you know, it's mind-boggling. It really is. Going back to the tokenization point with Zano, can you imagine if you had like fifteen thousand

investors that were tokenizing and buying a home that was going to be on Airbnb? See, that's the kind of thing that gets you excited because, yeah, fractionalize even real estate that could have, you know, a revenue source that's then converted into Zano. And then, well, it's a. I mean, in a way, you know, content tokenization has already sort of changed the world if you think about it, because, you know, what started with like sort of smaller apps like Steemit and Mines that sort of allowed individuals to tokenize their content and earn a buck from it. There are bigger social media companies called on real quick to that.

And they just started paying content creators, you know, right off the bat. So we've already seen it's had, it's had made a huge difference, but you're right. That's just that, that flood of capital. I mean, it just, I mean, you actually have like, think about it and really understand it. It's like a light bulb moment. um you know john mccaffey used to talk about medical tokens and and stuff like that and you know if you look at like uh uh the metaverse and how everything in the metaverse is an nft and you know uh it's just the applications are just sort of endless you know we could have we could have a you know three-day discussion just about the applications for tokenization and the

disruptive effects it's going to have on the world well this thursday this thursday's world blockchain roundtable that That is actually the theme. I'll show up for this. I'll show up for this. Tokenization of Main Street, I think, is the title. Well, so, so, so I've actually, I've come up with a list of like, uh, fifty different applications. And one of the things that I was going to do is I, I put together, the one thing I like about AI is I'm kind of like, okay, well, imagine you put together a health marketplace with medical tourism and all these other things. People could buy peptides or whatever. over the course of this fasting exercise, But I might, just put out a whole bunch of those.

Because I've thought about a bunch of these. let me give you an example of one. In fact, I mean, this sounds kind of, this is a screwball one, but you could actually do this. you could actually tokenize interests in lawsuits. This is something that is actually legally permissible. So I was talking to a guy, Werner Mendenhall, who's suing all these people for these COVID cases. The problem is it's almost impossible to get funding for it. And it's a long story, but there are oftentimes – institutional investors insurance companies and that fund these things. But because of the nature of big pharma and everything else, if if your name is on the list for funding one of these things,

then you get targeted by big pharma. But imagine the ability to tokenize the funding, privately tokenize the funding of lawsuits. Again, that's not my favorite application, but it's one of those things where you start thinking about what's possible and anything is possible. It opens up an infinite number of new business models that have never happened before and new combinations of things and allows them at a smaller scale. At Ravencoin, we used to talk about the idea of You should be able to tokenize a lemonade stand, right? Or you should have an app on your phone where you walk around, it's like, oh, you like the local cafe or whatever? You should be able to buy shares in the local cafe.

That is what it should be like. And we are nowhere through the existing system. We are further away from that. than we were five years ago. This is why we need something completely outside of the system. This is why RavenCoin, they ended up focusing on, oh, we're gonna use this tokenization for Wall Street. Well, guess what? It turns out that Wall Street doesn't want naked short selling to go away. They don't want all of the intermediaries that are in there to go away. So the tokenization scheme create is going to involve that they're going to those same third parties. That's exactly what's going on. My daughter started a business when she was ten selling slime. of all things on TikTok.

And I was kind of like, okay, well, I'll help you, right? This seems like a cool thing to teach you about. I'm like, I don't like physical product businesses and everything else. But anyway, we went through it and like, you know, you're gonna have supply chain issues. And it was a pain, right? Like we would have to go buy containers and do all this stuff. But she started actually getting some traction and raising some money. this is the kind of thing And I'm like, well, that would benefit from raising ten or fifteen thousand dollars. But what are your choices? you can use a crowdfunding thing Well, where the people can't actually own stock. But if you invest this much, you'll get a T-shirt or

you'll get an autographed container of the slime. But you can't own any equity in it. And the process that you have to go through is that one of the biggest scams and people that are in the stock broker, you know, broker dealer industry or whatever, will tell you that this jobs act was great, that under Obama that allowed for crowdfunding, regulation CF, they call it crowdfunding. You can raise up to like Well, five million dollars. it turns out in order to use that mechanism, you still have to go through a broker dealer. Well, the acceptance rate, because it's the same amount of general overhead if you're doing a ten thousand dollar fundraise is a million dollar

fundraiser, a ten million dollar fund. I mean, there's some fixed thing to it. So the acceptance rate by broker dealers to do regulate regulation crowdfunding is less than the percentage acceptance rate by VCs. It did absolutely nothing. And the only people that are using regulated CF reg CF are companies that are venture backed, doing a venture round to allow friends and family to invest alongside of the venture capitalists. This is the kind of stupid – it's just burn it all down. There is no use. Exactly, exactly. It was designed that way, Aaron. It was designed to be – the law was designed that way. That's the sort of thing, though, about, you know, we've all been predicting the

war on crypto for years. But I've also always said that, you know, at the end, we win. At the end of the day, we are going to be victorious because, you know, the state will use different tools against us. But you know what? We're going to turn around and we're going to have things like Zeno who just, you know, pop up in response to all these different sort of things. problems that they create. And Zeno is a sort of solution to all of it, like the tokenization, the confidential layer. So, you know, I remain confident because I really think that we innovate more quickly than the market will always innovate more quickly than the state does. The state's always going to

push back because they they want, you know, power and money and whatnot. But at the end of the day, I think it's sort of the market always wins. I agree. The law of economics always wins. I'm of the position that there is no law. And and I'm not asking for permission anymore. Maybe it's because I'm old now. But now we don't need to. Exactly. Free men don't ask for permission. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Yeah. No, I'm in the same position. The only caveat to that would be is we have to watch out for, you know, obviously projects getting hijacked because that seems to be a thing.

I think we're more protective of it now, I mean, obviously, you know, in this particular situation. But it does almost seem like there's a point. There are a lot of people that speculate, oh, well, the CIA is behind, you know, incubating this project. I don't think that's how it works. I think they wait until something gets to a certain point and then they infiltrate it. And and they're pretty good at that. I mean, like when you the one thing that I would say is, you know, Roger's right that they use propaganda and censorship with Bitcoin. Here's and he's a free speech absolutist. I think we're all free speech absolutists. Here's the problem, though, that the propaganda and censorship work.

Right. I mean, that that's that that's the only and, you know, yeah. The hijacking of these movements is sort of their modus operandi. They've been doing this since the hippie movement, right? They hijacked the Tea Party movement from Ron Paul and turned it into some neocon John McCain bastardization. They hijacked Bitcoin, as we all know. So, I mean, yeah, that's their modus operandi. The hope, of course, is that Zeno is sort of protected in terms of its structure and design from that sort of stuff happening. But you're right. They censored Bitcoin.

I was a moderator on the BTC forum. When I started asking questions, I got booted as a mod. Badge of honor. Badge of honor. I know. As the mod. It's absolutely insane the way that they censored and that's what that whole toxic maximalism was about. It was about turning people into outcasts and making them afraid to question, number go up, and all this nonsense. You still see a little bit of it, but it's become less and less prevalent. as it's become more and more obvious that Bitcoin just doesn't work for its initial intended purposes. Now it's just, you know, kids who want to get rich and hedge fund managers, but there's really no cypherpunks left in the movement.

No agorists, no, no crypto anarchists, everybody's moved on to projects, you know, like privacy coins and bigger blocks, you know, more scalable solutions. Right. As it should be. I hope, I hope dragon chain is the next one that gets, you know, released from being caged at the SEC, since I'm kind of intertwined with that, with Dindot Social. And Joe Roach has got, you know, the founder of Dragon Chain. He's got justified righteous anger for what they've done to him, his project, his family. not to the extent that Ian

and Roger are at or the folks at Tornado Cash, but, you know, he's been wronged. And I see some hope, some light at the end of the tunnel, so long as there's enough, I guess, buzz or attention at the SEC to release that, you know, that case, that project. Yeah, I mean, you know, it does seem like the quick analysis that I did that the prioritization for the SEC seems to be directly contributions to the Trump campaign. linked to the amount of I mean, Justin Sun got his thing dismissed right away after investing tens of millions of dollars into World Financial. I mean, the Winklevoss twins, I mean,

you go through the list and there seems to be a... a pretty tight association there but hopefully yeah hopefully this is one of these things where it'll just it will trickle down the one thing that worries me is that there is not an application of principle here trump does seem to be kind of a let's make a deal like for instance he agreed to pardon ross but if there were somebody that had a similar set of circumstances he wouldn't apply that equally unless there was another deal and the quid pro quo was to get support from the libertarians and so that's the that's the question for for joe is how does he get that level of attention yeah go ahead well one thing that I'm frustrated about as

well is what about jeremy kaufman yes that's another one oh well and like I I I said this what we've just described is exactly that there is no law it's a pay-for-play you know uh case or legal play court or whatever you want to call it. But it's gamemanship. It's sad. It's just sad. And people who have solid utility applications that can make society better or an alternative way of doing things, a parallel system, a parallel track, a parallel network of the CIA has the ability to upset that Um,

apple cart, infiltrate it and kill it, but they're slow to react. And that's where, um, that's where, you know, Xano has to get to its, its position where then it can explode rapidly. Um, and it can't be, it can't be stopped at that point. It's already out in the ether. Yep. And that's what I'm hoping for. Well, we're near that point. Utility projects on Zano is what's next. We're near that point. We're very near that point. I think once Confidential Air launches, which it's actually built, like the tech's already done. It's just a timing thing. That's a game changer. And then I think there are

just a couple of other pieces that are actively background that will make... being worked on in the this is why for my workshop I've stopped doing my workshops until and then I'm actually building online workshops because I want to be able to reach more people but I I want to be able to I mean I was doing these workshops where I'm like onboarding people the cake wallet and the xano wallet I'm trying to get boomers to get you know like sign up for two different wallets and then set up an alias and then I've got people put sending their private keys to somebody and like it was just So we need to streamline this. Here's how to onboard a merchant. Here's how to onboard an individual.

And then my hope is at the end of these workshops, there's an actual peer-to-peer transaction happening. Because as we all know, not very many people have ever done a peer-to-peer transaction. A lot of people have never even heard about it. It's not even a concept. What's up here? yeah but uh but it's you know it's a game changer like to me it was uh um I know when I used xeno the first time actually it was with dan uh who um he's not on here now but I I created a uh uh I think a julian assange token and then a uh a ross a ross free ross token and we used the swap feature in the wallet and and I was we were able to swap one token

for another without a third party now to me like that was like huge Like, I'm like, wow, like, this is just you have no idea what the implications are of this. We were just able to trade this thing privately with no third parties. Do you know what this means? And I think Dan was kind of like, well, you know, all right, whatever we swap, we swap these tokens. But I'm like, that was so powerful to me. And that was that was almost that was almost a year ago. But like, yeah, there's so much you can do with this. hopefully we can get people And, you know, to appreciate this because it is magical when you do finally understand what it means for liberating people and opening up markets.

Can you imagine an app on walking down the sidewalk your phone where you're and it's tied to your GPS and it's showing all the tokens for each storefront? and uh and their their price and then you could click on it and dig down maybe their financials are presented you know they're high ones yeah and uh yeah oh they're seasonal oh look at this they're seasonal I could buy this token here in january it's going to explode in the spring look at the they do all this business at spring break or whatever you know and uh right you hit that you know you boom boom and it's all on xano it's all private Nobody knows who invested, what the return was. I think in the long run,

I think people are going to be forced into these sort of privacy coins that have utility because there's not a tremendous amount of going to be a whole lot of options when the state sort of, you know, as they sort of progress in this sort of financial downfall, they're going to become more and more desperate, right? They're like a fish floundering about, you know, on land and uh they're going to get more and more um defensive and unpredictable as they near that tipping point so I think people are going to have no choice but to get into privacy coins like xeno um well you know you're right sal it's kind of like um You know what Buffett says,

you buy when there's blood in the street. Well, I kind of take it a little differently. When there's blood in the street, that's when people are going to change or they're not going to be complacent anymore. They're going to have to act. They're going to have to look at alternatives. It's just like when your grocery... You go to the store and you only got so much money and, you know, you're going, wow, I can't buy this many eggs. I'm going to have to I guess turkey burgers because I'm going to switch to hamburger or whatever. they're cheaper than You know, I mean, it's change. It sounds far fetched to the average listener, but like, that's what the Silk Road was, right?

People were tired of, you know, buying, you know, laced drugs and stuff they didn't know and things like that. So we, you know, the market created a solution. Same thing with three D printers, right? People were tired of these stupid regulations. So we saw, we thought, OK, well, three different their own guns, you know, so so and that's sort of the whole key to sort of crypto anarchy. And the whole cypherpunk movement is sort of creating solutions, you know, to the state imposed regulations. And agorism is sort of useful because then we say, all right, well, how can we trade these items? in a peer-to-peer or unregulated fashion. Again, Xano checks all of these boxes. It's the antidotes,

everything that we've been saying on X, this is the coin that we've all been waiting for. It does everything at this point. Tremendous amount of utility and tremendous amount of disintermediative potential. Agreed. It's going to be exciting. I do like the fact that I can use AI to visually shows these applications. Actually, this is a problem with Liberty. This is actually something that I've realized that You know, the reason technocracy is popular is that people have been trained through government schools to not think abstractly. So everybody thinks about things in concretes. And so the WEF will present

a fifteen-minute city. It's like, oh, here's a sketch of a thing. Here's what it's going to be like. And it's like, well, yeah, but the alternative to that is like literally infinite possibility, whatever you can think of. But people... don't think abstractly. Right. And so, so it's like, we can sit here and talk about conceptually. Oh yeah. I can tell you there are two quadrillion dollars worth of assets that you could, but you know, to be able to start showing people some like prototypes of what that means. I think that's going to be a good way to help talk. And I'm going to be doing this over the next few weeks. I'm going to be, cause as part of, you know, doing these,

these nightly podcasts, I want to show, I want to show people, cause I've already got a list of like, okay, imagine this stock market. Imagine, I mean, you talked earlier, I'm just doing this Raven coin. It's like fractional art. You know, I actually did something. which I was on Superbowl Sunday in probably like, twenty, twenty one or whatever. And I can't remember what Elon Musk was doing, but I put together this video for Elon Musk of how he could tokenize everything on Mars. You could tokenize the supply chain, you could tokenize voting, you could tokenize capital markets. And I actually created this little video or whatever. And so but like doing and it was I mean,

it's horrible production quality, but I did it on my iPad or whatever. But but if we can start doing that with with Zeno, because people just to give them like here are ten different things right now, what could you think of? Because for me, I talk everybody that I talk to that's a small business owner entrepreneur. Once you explain how this works, they can apply it to their business. Every startup I've done. Zeno would have made my life easier because I ran into issues with payment processing or banks or whatever. Like my first company, I couldn't get credit card processing or I had to come up with a three hundred and thirty thousand dollar letter of credit just to be

able to take credit cards, which was absurd. And my second company was destroyed in part because I was unable to to process. And it wasn't even in the one hand, it was debit cards. And then I wasn't able to use a check processor. And it had nothing to do with my business. It was collateral damage related to other regulatory things. So when I talk to people and they think about it, yeah, this actually applies. This would have solved, this would have reduced five percent or ten percent of their costs, or it would have opened up this series of new opportunities. A friend of mine makes t-shirts I'm like oh well what if you could have you could have nfts for these t-shirts or he sells

artwork and tie the artwork and so you know once once you get people kind of flowing like that then then the potential becomes I mean well you know let's we can even sort of have a mentioned the super bowl little fun with it you imagine you know you ever see those super bowl pools with a hundred boxes and you you can buy a box of course we we would never engage in any gambling like that of course not especially not in america no But, like, especially not here in Florida. Shit, they'll break my door down. But imagine what you could do with Zeno, where each box was sort of represented by a token, and it was sort of all executed, like, using some sort of smart contract or Oracle based on

the events in the game. And it's all done in a private and untraceable fashion. So, I mean, you know, again, we talked about, like, securities and assets and real-world stuff. the possibilities are absolutely endless. I mean, like, People have no... I feel like it really hasn't hit the crypto space, what we sort of call the Tocambrian explosion, what's sort of looming on the horizon. You know, I think, you know, people, they, you know, a lot of these kids, they get involved with Bitcoin and they're sort of, they listen to Saifedean and Moose and these guys because they want to get rich. They think that they're going to get rich. Well, guess what? You got to get involved

early in a disruptive technology. That's how you make money, right? Money follows utility in crypto. Tokenization is the next wave. And guess what? And sort of Zeno is sort of designed and sort of set up to sort of lead that trend. that industry lead that path, which is, again, super exciting. And it's the antidote to CBDCs and the antidote to technocracy. I mean, it's actually it's beyond a nice to have. It's necessary unless you want to basically have your free will taken from you. I mean, that to me is how important this technology is. And I look at it maybe just a little different. OK, I'm in my sixties and I'm retired, but I've always been an early adapter to new technology.

And have always gravitated towards that. And so when I think of Xano now, I think of, you know, like I was mentioning, when people can't afford their grocery bill, they're forced to change their habits. Maybe their eating habits. Well, if they can cut their tax bill, then they will make a change if they think the risk is greater. is negligible. So not that I'm advocating this, certainly not in America, but let's just suppose I was like, say living in, I don't know, Mexico or Europe and taxation was a little heavy and I could develop some kind of residual income

that was in a form of a privacy token that and uh and I could turn around and sell it or spend it elsewhere or convert it back into say bitcoin or ethereum of some sort or um what you know that's where I think right the change is going to happen people are being forced that direction because of harder and harder times And inflation wages are not keeping up with inflation worldwide because of central banking. And and that's going to force change. And people will take upon those risks to skirt or lower their tax bill, just like they'll do whatever they'll do to conserve to lower their heating bill or whatever.

And I think that's where there's some opportunity there because people are already distrustful of the state. They see the lies. They see the corruption. And why should I give them any more money? And, you know, I'm going to take back what's mine and I'm going to go ahead and start looking at these privacy coins or tokens to bring about, you know, some privacy income. That's what I foresee in the future. That's... kind of lifestyle. Not that I'm advocating that Would you rather pay, you know, uh, uh, sixty percent of your income to the state of New York or would you rather use Zeno? You know, would you rather fund the, uh, you know, child's, you know,

genital mutilation surgeries in California through your taxation, would you rather funds one of the genocides going on the other side of the world, or would you rather use Zeno? Which is a moral sort of solution to an ethical problem. And guess what it also does, Sal, to that point. When, you know, someone says, you know, I don't want to stay here in California anymore because I don't want my money to go into this gentle mutilations or whatever. But I can. All my family's here. My job is here. My career is here. Well, guess what? There is another alternative. You can stay right there and you can start diverting your income sources to alternative income sources

that don't have that tax liability, shall we say. And it doesn't have to be a hundred percent. Go where you're treated best. All right. Well, I like the weather here in California or I like the weather in Florida or wherever you might be. I like winters. I like to go snowmobiling or whatever. fine but you don't like the politics the local politics all right fine you don't want to contribute to that anymore fine then hey guess what look over here between behind door number three it's not some guy in the back alley with a bunch of watches no it's on a blockchain it's stable it's and it's private and you can take extra steps or if you will and there's There is a need for this and

people are hungry for change or people are hungry to stop feeding the state and this is going to force It's almost like hurting us. We're having to make, I'm comfortable, thank God. I don't have to make these tough choices, food or medicine or whatever. But there are people out there and there are people that are going to make tough choices. And one of those tough choices just might be, I need an alternative income source and I don't have to pay so much on my paycheck towards government. It's sort of the embodiment of what Sam Konkin, his whole philosophy of voluntarism and agorism, it sort of has come to fruition. It sort of reached its pinnacle in the form of Zeno.

So, you know, this is sort of, this is the agora. It sort of represents the agora that Sam sort of described. So, you know, you can keep voting, I don't know, for more of the same ideology. You can vote harder. I don't know. I don't want to tell you. You can work twice as long at the phone bank. You can knock on a hundred times as many doors as you've done every other election. You can vote for the same parties. But if you want a real solution to these problems, the only ones doing this are the agorists and the sort of entrepreneurs and disintermediate people who are sort of disintermediating the state and creating these solutions. Right. there's the laws of the universe you know like

gravity and e equals mc squared well there's also the law of economics and markets win inevitably you can't you you can't put your way out of debt and you know the law of economics will win and people will gravitate to the market that is winning or works Um, and sometimes they're pushed that way and that's fine. So hard times bring about change and there's a need for change. I was almost ready to go register Shoot, and I was going to vote for and vote, Harris to hasten the demise of the system. Speed things up. But I was like, no, I can't. I'm not going to trade my principles for that.

I took a hit already in the fork wars. I sided with BCH, and I'm proud of it because it was principled. It was a principled decision. Collapsitarian. Yep. It is exciting times ahead. It's a race. It is a race. From my experience... with all these events traveling all over the place, I've just come to find that a lot of these libertarians that have become Bitcoin maxis, that's not our target market. they're a write-off and They're kind of, they should naturally be aligned and they're not. And I just, you have to come to that realization and then find some of these other categories in places where there is more receptivity to the,

to the fundamental idea. Cause a lot of these people have lost their way ideologically. I don't know whether they think that, you know, if they, If they cut their own hair and they dollar cost average in, then at some point, if they don't sell the asset, they're going to end up in a citadel on top of the world owning everything. I don't even understand the appeal to it conceptually, but nevertheless, great marketing and great propaganda. But there are a lot of people out there. uh that had never used cryptocurrency before but are looking for alternatives and a lot of it is out of necessity out of being debanked and out of you know other things and so though that that is

our those are our people I think for this yeah and look look you you you can it's very possible that you can make a ton of money speculating on some given coin uh but you know from a from a libertarian perspective, from an agorist perspective, they're useless, right? If there's no utility behind it, if it doesn't make the world a better place by solving some problem created by the state, then it's really, it's useless. And really, at that point, it really kind of just lacks value, you know? We can... You know, we talk about, you know, what Menger and Mises said about how a commodity has to have some sort of utility before it can be used as money and traded as a medium of exchange.

And I think that's sort of we've lost that picture with the maximalists. They've completely forgone those ideas, even though, you know, there's people like Saifedean Ammous. who portray themselves in public as these scholarly Austrian economists who are actually refuting everything Menger, Mises, and Rothbard ever said about monetary theory and just confusing all of these newbies and people who've been in crypto for the last five, six years they sort of have been sort of fallen prey to these scam artists and grifters. And unfortunately, you know, that sort of retarded the movement a lot. But again, if people read Hijacking Bitcoin and Roger Ver's book,

they'll see that that was no accident, right? This was all done on purpose to protect the banking cartel and their monopoly on money, just as we all suspected for years. And... You know, that's why they are attacking him and trying to give him a hundred and nine years for, you know, the most ridiculous. I saw a video today that he filed a Freedom of Information Act request. asking the government, all right, how much do I owe you? Just give me a number and I'll pay it. And they wouldn't even tell him. He filed a FOIA request and they wouldn't even tell him, which just proves to me that it is zero to do with money, right? They don't need Roger's million bucks or whatever

they think he owes them. It's nothing. They wouldn't be trying to give somebody a hundred and nine years for a financial penalty that they're willing to make good on, right? It's, you know, it's... Everyone else settled. Michael Saylor was offered the ability to settle. I mean, even FTX settled billions of dollars of tax liability for pennies on the dollar. Never seen a situation like this. It's so obviously politically motivated from the fact that they lied to the grand jury. And didn't provide the between Roger and his emails back and forth attorneys and accountants showing that he was actually trying to figure out how to pay taxes to sending the IRS to violate his attorney client

privilege to now trying to say that he's a fugitive because he's fighting extradition. Like literally it's, it's, it's obscene. That's why I'm actually Cause like this, this is, passionate about it. it is the worst case of crypto lawfare it is it is the number one by far there is no second best worst case of crypto lawfare and we all know why it's motivated and um but but you know And interestingly, it was pushed under Biden, but there's this small group of Bitcoin maxis that are kind of trying to suppress it within the Trump administration. Maybe that's what we need to do, Aaron. We need to list ten top largest lawfare cases.

And you could put Trump number one and Roger Ver number two. It might get his attention or someone in. That's why I thought... I thought Trump would be receptive to the idea that Roger was sort of forced into exile almost because, you know, they were harassing him for his political stance at the time. And you would think that Trump, who's experienced that, would be a little empathetic towards that. So I am sort of hopeful that he does get that pardon. But, you know, I don't know. The whole thing is absurd. Yeah. I mean, that man has been under this threat for twenty five plus years since he left his twenty, you know, in his twenties when he ran for office as a libertarian, you know,

and ever since that point, he's had a target on his back from this country. And it's just trust and lawfare, a lawfare case from when he was in his twenties, early twenties. That's that says a lot. So you could you know, that's the reason I would put Trump number one and him number two is just because his case has been longer, but not as played out in the news media. That's why I commend you, Aaron, for, you know, you're going through a seven-day fast to raise awareness of this. I can't imagine how, you know, what a toll that must take on you. I heard you talking about it a little bit earlier in the show before I came on.

I had it on in the background. That's a, again, like I said, man, you're doing the Laura's workout here. Well, actually, it's an amazing process. It's hard. But then when you go through it, because I've done it before, I mean, I may push it up to forty. I may try forty again if this doesn't get resolved. And if this fast actually helps bring attention to it, because actually fasting is good. I actually recommend it. people should should test it out You know, and learn about it. And I'm going to be providing a lot of content. every podcast that shows kind of what goes on in the body at various points. I mean, it does fix a lot of underlying things and people, no one talks about it

because there's no money in it. I mean, if it turns out that the way to cure a lot of diseases is to actually not eat anything, who in the hell makes out on that, right? But at the same time, I hope it helps raise awareness and and fast because again how does it how does roger cut through the noise because he's not here he's in spain the noise with all of these and how does he cut through people with lobbyists and and you know connections in washington dc and you know investing in trump related companies how do we get him to the top of the pile yeah yeah yeah well you know that's man I can't imagine seven days little on forty I mean so is it just water or water with electrolytes and

salt so there's no no calories but uh I I the only time I've had an issue fasting is when I didn't have salt and I actually passed out that was the only negative consequence I've had fasting so far but I'm hacking at this time so salt salt is key and then electrolytes and and you know today's believe it or not right now this is the worst day or right now this is the worst I'm going to be in this process there's a point probably Like you will have more mental clarity and more energy. Like most people, if you've never fasted, you're like, oh, my God, like I'm going to starve. I'm going to die. And that's what you think would happen. And if you start it like you're in day two,

you're like, oh, wow, this day two kind of sucks. But then when you break through that, you realize like I said this the other day, I will produce more content. If I were to do this for a month, I will produce more content in one month than I have in the past year. Because that's how much mental energy and clarity you have in this fasted state. It's amazing and it's not what people would expect. No shit. Just keep an eye on your liver and kidney functions. But I can attest that I think I've only gone like three, four days. Yeah, that's the longest I've gone. My wife went eight, I think. I might have done a day or

two in college when I was just broke. I just didn't have any money. Yeah, I think we all did that. Shoot, back in the day, I used to be Mormon, and we did it the first Sunday of every month. Right. Oh, man. Well, I didn't jump at it. I mean, I went, you know, I did one day, and I mean, I've kind of built up over time, so I would not advocate. jumps into a long, prolonged fast. I don't think anybody just You have to... learn how it works. But then when you do learn how it works, it's like, oh yeah, this is actually a pretty effective tool for doing a lot of things. Like I truly feel like if you had a group of people that did a seven day fast together, the other thing is you get

into this mental focus, this mental energy, and you're so present that I wonder would we like to have, if we were having this conversation right now, where all four of us were in a fasted state, I'm telling you, like we'd solve most of the world's problems. I'm convinced that we need a centralized government and put fasted people into fast-focused money. That would not be the solution. Starve the bankers. There you go. Starve the bankers. We can all agree. Gentlemen, Oh, shoot. I've been up since almost well before five a.m. And I got another early morning day. Aaron, again, I thank you very much for the invite.

It's always good to be on the show. And I hope you can join us this Thursday. I know Joe would love to have you. And Sal, there's always an open invitation. I think, you know, Joe wrote, you've met him before from Dragon Chain. We have that show every Thursday morning. it's called the world blockchain round table. And, uh, a long time ago. Yeah. Maybe you were, maybe you were, it's actually, we just, we just did the two hundred and first episode last week. Okay. That's and it's weekly show. So they tell you, we, you know, we're almost at the four year point now, but, um, Aaron, again, I commend you for what you're doing. Thank you very much. it means a lot to the Um,

community and I know it means a lot to Aaron and it's, it's a noble act and, uh, um, you inspired us, us all. And I appreciate that. Cause I know, I know Roger does so. Well, thank you. And thank you for joining I appreciate that. and participating. And by the way, this content is great. So I'm gonna create clips from this and I'm sure the highlight of the entire podcast is gonna come from this exchange tonight. So hopefully more and more people will be able to hear the dialogue and all the great ideas that came forth. I think that it will, it will be key to, to, you know, getting people to start thinking about the power of these alternative systems. And that's, if we can do that,

then we've got a shot. Absolutely. It's the only way, the only way forward. Absolutely. Yep. Yep. Well, gentlemen, again, thank you very much. I'm going to bow out. Sal, it's been an honor to be able to talk with you, sir. I've been following you for a long time. I apologize. I don't catch you on Wednesday evenings like I should. I think I've watched you live only a few times. Hop in there. Hop in there. We're live every Wednesday, seven thirty Eastern Standard Time. Hop in. I will, sir. Thanks again. gentlemen again thank you very much you have a pleasant evening be safe all right god bless good night yeah it was cool it's

cool meeting uh meeting all these guys tonight you uh you always put on a good presentation man I appreciate that. I, I, I like, I actually, Yeah. I like this part the best. It's just hard to get people to, you know, obviously it's time consuming and it's not always a convenient time, but I, I, I love having these conversations. And I'm really grateful that you could, you could come on. Been a big fan for forever. So yeah, No, as soon as I saw you, first of all, Of course. when I saw you mention the fast, I was like, oh, my God, that's like such a brilliant idea. And then I, you know, I saw you going live talking about it. As soon as I got home, I plugged it in and I was like, man,

let me on stream because you're talking to all the important stuff. And, you know, unfortunately, once with so many podcasts, I'll like do like guests on and it'll just it's kind of. nonsensical stuff just you know agorism versus you know this and bob and it's okay you know it's all good and well but like you're talking about solutions and and you know real the real issues in the agorist movement like the you know the war on crypto and that's the stuff that we have to talk about that's the important stuff that needs to take center stage not you know what angela mccardle's doing or whoever the new head of the lp is or who voted for who you know it's it's unfortunately there's you

know of all the problems we have in the world it's let's let's talk about solutions and that's why I love what you do so much um you know again tremendous fan for a long time well thank you I appreciate that and I you know yeah and it is exciting it's there aren't many of us, as you know, this is part of the problem, but, I mean, this is the, but the good news is we're all connecting. And, and now I think actually Zeno is going to give us the ability to, to actually move forward on this. And that's, that is exciting. I'm glad we, I mean, we both came to the same place kind of independently and I hope, I hope we can instill in others kind of that Eureka moment when you,

actually use the technology and you can start thinking about the infinite possibilities of it. And cause I think that is going to happen. And, and again, the technology is there and it's developed. So. Well, wait until, wait until the maxis and the ETH maxis. I can't believe there's such thing as an ETH maxi, but wait until these, these people actually find out that you can sort of wrap these sort of transparent chains in Zeno and trade it. in an anonymous fashion on the Zaino blockchain. I think that is sort of, you know, a lot of them are going to be sort of blinded, number go up. Saifuddin Ammous told me not to. Michael Saylor said don't do it. But, you know, again, when the state sort of

forces their hand and they have no choice but to move their, you know, Bitcoin or their Ethereum or their whatever coin on Zaino, because you can tokenize anything on Zaino at this point. At that point, they're not going to have a choice. And that's when, you know, I think, you know, the possibilities are absolutely endless. Like we were saying, it's sort of an all-in-one solution. Text all the boxes. So this is the coin that we've all been waiting for, as I've been saying on X for, you know, weeks now or months. But like... I don't know, again, like this is like, I haven't been this excited about anything in the Liberty Movement. I can't even tell you how long, like it really feels like

the early days again. It feels like, like, ten years ago. You know, I went to Porkfest in like, twenty fifteen, Aaron, and they were, at this point, I was just sort of like, kind of, I knew the philosophy, and I knew about all the different schools of thought, but when I got to Porkfest, And, like, whatever year it was, people were actually trading goods and services for cryptocurrency and for silver coins. And there was, you know, classes on how to fingerprint the gun. And people were using aquaponics to grow food in, like, you know, small living conditions. And it was just... so inspiring for me I thought wow these people are actually creating real

life solutions they're not just whining about it they're not just uh you know pontificating about it as so many in the in the liberty community do these people are actually fixing the problem and zeno sort of gives me that sort of You know, we've had the war on crypto and we've had people put in jail, everybody, even Cody Wilson. And, you know, all these setbacks and inflation is sort of, you know, it's just been a disaster for so long since the block wars, really, since they hijacked the whole movement. Everything that's been downhill in Zeno is sort of the first light in the tunnel, and it sort of makes me feel like the old days again. And it's so exciting. I'm so glad that I learned

about it and found out about it when it was sort of in its infancy. But, you know, when you have your ear to the street and you're looking for projects that have utility and not projects that you're going to speculate on and get rich, that's how sort of wealth and real value sort of follows utility. So that's what I found at least. That's how I found crypto. I just didn't want to fuck with the banks anymore. That's how I found, you know, all sorts of different things. ICOs in twenty sixteen and Ethereum, you know, before it got hijacked, that was very useful and we were so excited about it. Now it's just, you know, so Zeno is just like sort of like the. It's sort of like the phoenix,

like the rebirth of cryptocurrency, I'm so excited to be part of it. and again, So are you going to are you going to be able to make it to Porkfest this year? we're actually thinking about You know, getting a table. I was talking to somebody for the show, the Subversive Spectrum. We were actually going to get a table and maybe do a live episode from Porkfest. You want a table at our tent? Yeah, let's do it. We have the biggest tent. why don't we do that there because I'll tell you so my vision for this I I had this vision for a long time my vision of this was that ian would be there ross would be there and ian would be there that was actually the the original the idea behind it but um

you know I learned about bitcoin from roger at liberty form but also at porkfest and that's where I met eric for he's I actually I found this video clip from of roger where he was giving away these physical bitcoin and they were valued at the time at between seven and eleven dollars each I think he gave away like yeah he gave away like a hundred and fifty of these at pork fest in twenty twelve and so there's a video of him being interviewed about this and and so there's this agora alley at pork fest so for this entire week nobody is using fiat currency at all and you know you have people like um I can't remember the guy's name that he he sold baklava and he made you know whatever he's retired

off of selling baklava at port fast I think roger bought some and so you know in over the last few years it's kind of dwindled because people haven't been able to use bitcoin but last year Monero started to take center stage and then I was using Zeno and I was using Goldbacks. And so I thought, you know what? What if we had the twenty twelve, twenty thirteen kind of Roger Energy? And it was electric. But what if we brought that back? with privacy coins and then like just went all out. So, so the Zeno guys are coming in for this. So, so we've, you know, we're going to have confidential layer is sponsoring Zeno sponsoring. I'm going to talk about karma, but, but it's not just talking about it.

It's like, okay, I'm going to go to Agora alley and I'm just going to buy whatever, everything on in Agora alley. If they, if they're willing to take Zeno and we're, and we're going to just pound the pavement for the entire week. um and and just try to make it happen and I'll I'll bring a bunch of uh merchandise from agora threads my my libertarian merchandise store um and I'll set up a table and I'll just you know everything's for sale I'll price it all in xeno and uh I can bring three d printer from three printer gober and we can we can even print a gun there and we can we can sell three d printers for xeno nobody even has to know Perfect. I love it. Let's do it. I mean, truly.

And I want as many people to come to Porkfest as possible. And this is the intent. This is the energy. Is your table in Agoura Valley? No, we have literally the largest tent. So we are the largest sponsor of the entire Porkfest. So we have a huge tent that accommodates fifty people right next to the main pavilion. It's between the pavilion and like the fire pit. And so basically we took the brownstone tent. So there's like a stage and there's like seating and there's a couch. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, they're going to allow us to have tables outside of the thing as well. And that's it. And it's a hundred percent

privacy coin related. And, you know, it's Monero and Zeno and everything else. But I mean, it's going to be, frankly, it's going to be predominantly Zeno. I'm having like a spiritual experience right now because that tent is where I learned how to three D print guns in like two thousand and fourteen. Cody Wilson sent down one of his buddies. to run a seminar. I attended the seminar. I'm sitting there. My jaw was on the floor. I'm like, I can print a gun? I'm living in New Jersey. Where do I get this three-D printer? You know what I mean? Of course, I ended up starting three-D printer Gober, which was one of my first successful startups in life-changing experience. Like it was just a

So now to be in the same tent for, you know, a Zeno-related purpose, it just seems like I've sort of come full circle. I just absolutely love it. So wait, you rented out the whole tent and they're actually allowing you to sleep in that tent? Yeah. I'm not sleeping in the tent. We actually have an Airbnb because I'm bringing a whole bunch of my wife. My son's coming, whole bunch of people. so we're going to have a I mean, we have a couple of tents. I think it's part of the sponsorship. We have a hotel room as well. But no, the tent is just for, I mean, we're going to have a whole week of talks and whatever. I mean, in fact, we're still trying to figure out the program.

So any ideas that you have, like this three-D printer idea or whatever, like it's wide open right now. the only thing that we did is we I mean, planted our flag and said, this is going to be the privacy tent and we're going to do privacy stuff here. Dude, you know what they had was... One year they had something that was so sick. It was, they had a vending machine and it was just, it was like, it's like its own little spot. And all it was was a vending machine. There was nobody there manning. It was just a vending machine. And you could pay in like a cryptocurrency and you could buy like bullets, silver bars, birth control, acid. You can buy all kinds of shit, like the craziest stuff.

And it was just such a cool concept. I thought, we could have something like that and Like, just use Zeno, you know what I mean? Like, the possibilities are just endless. And, you know, one of the sort of problems with QuarkFest is that it's sort of gotten less and less, what's the word? Not rowdy, but, like, less enthusiastic. Like there was one year where the New Hampshire Division of Taxation showed up and started asking vendors for their tax information and the crowd formed and just started throwing like water bottles and rocks at them and they ended up just getting in the car and leaving. It's like a video on YouTube. warm of the heart yeah it has become more I mean

there are a lot of these talks about it's a lot of are going to be talks about political stuff right there bitcoin strategic reserve and my whole point behind this was you know what no let's get let's get everybody back and we're going to do it we're going to we're going to have twenty twelve energy and it's going to be privacy I'm in and then let's do it here's the bat signal and we're just going to bring all of our people we're I mean look Zeno people are flying from all over the world. People are coming from all over the world for this on the privacy side. And then we're just going to they're going to be different people make it happen. Yeah, everything else, and different factions and

but it's going to be the largest concentration of people engaging in peer-to-peer transactions using privacy coins on the planet because it's bigger than Moneratopia, right? it's going to be two to three I mean, thousand people And we're gonna hit it hard. I mean, again, I'm there, my son, my wife, Zaino's gonna have anywhere between two and four people there directly, right? And then again, like my... I'm still pushing for Roger and Ross. I mean, hopefully Ian. Well, and Ian. But I mean, there's a shot that Roger and Ross are both there. Imagine that. And part of our sponsorship is we get this like peak speaking time on Saturday in the main pavilion. And so like they're telling me, well,

who's going to speak there? I don't know yet, And I'm kind of like, well, but I'll tell you who I'm holding out for. Imagine that. We're capping this off. This is our moment to say, we're bringing back separation of money and state. We're bringing back voluntary. This is what we're going to do. I'm excited. I'm totally pumped about that. getting me pumped up for you're getting you're the whole thing man like school crypto vibes just I'm getting like the old having this conversation with you it's so refreshing to hear like people think this way because it's just depressing on on x sometimes and instagram when you hear these uh number go up maxis and they

just it's just so boring and just not you they're not talking about anything except getting rich like I want to talk about like this kind of like like you know creating solutions to issues and you know I can remember when last time we were at pork fest it was like bringing ross was such a major issue and now you know the fact that he could be speaking there is just I don't know it's just so okay it's just wonderful stuff exciting stuff and if roger could be there you know, that's why everybody needs to go out and sign that petition. Of course, free Roger now, but like, we're really hoping he has a pardon and can get, get there before, you know, his, his court case in May.

Yeah, no, I think, I think it'd be a, it'd be a world, world changing event. And, and so I think it's going to, I really do think it's going to happen. I don't know. There's a part of me that just, you know, we're putting a lot of energy behind it. There are a lot of people that have a lot of energy behind it. and we're just not going to give up. And so I do think it's going to be a lot of work. I don't think it's going to be easy. Obviously, it hasn't been easy, but I also think kind of the struggle of it, but when it does happen, it's going to make it that much more magical. So I have high hopes on this coming up. I mean, Trump claims to be the guy who is ending the war on crypto.

I wish I could find that post that he made from before, I know I posted something about it, but he said something like, Oh, like, you know, the war on crypto is over. he might've even used the term He actually, war on crypto. So it's like, you know, look, here's, You know, it's not about, here we go. like we said earlier, like letting the Hawk to a girl go free or something like that. We have to actually take meaningful steps like freeing, uh, the crypto six in Ian Freeman and, uh, All he did was use a vending machine to sell crypto. And Roger Ver, who is just a completely political persecution, they have to sort of deregulate a lot of these point of sale. You're talking about the

problem with point of sale, the need for a real good solution for point of sale. That's one of the things I felt in my business. They basically destroyed a couple of my businesses that way. were sort of crypto dominant and then all of a sudden you know you get your your your only pos system pulled right out underneath you and you can't do sales anymore so you know these are these these are this is the stuff that has to be done to actually end the war on crypto not like the bullshit stuff like letting people get scammed by the hawk to a girl so hopefully we see some real action and you know if he's in time for port fest man that would be legendary I know. So I think we can make it happen.

I think if we keep pushing this out there again, you know, a lot of it for Trump, we know it's not based on principle. It's a lot of it's based on momentum. But I think if enough people are getting out the story, getting out the word, there's pressure behind it. I mean, after a certain point. Once people find out who Roger is and all this stuff that he's done, then it becomes embarrassing for them to continue to allow this to happen. I mean, we're on day three hundred and thirty eight of him being stuck in Spain. I mean, we're, you know, in less than a month, it will have been a year like this is just like that's just beyond embarrassing. so I think the more gets out

the more pressure there is and you know we make it so that it's it becomes uh he he loses more political capital by not dropping the case and by not part right I think that's well that's why what you know this what you're doing and with the fast to raise awareness is so important and so critical like you know like we sort of needed a solution to like really raise awareness and boom, you stepped up and you, you, I think you really hit the nail on the head with this one. And I really think that this is going to sort of make people force them to actually take, take a look at what's going on. You know, the fact that, you know, Elon said that Ross or that Roger shouldn't get a

pardon because he renounced his citizenship. Like you would think Trump, who is a victim of lawfare in this like almost the same degree would you know be the first one to sort of feel empathetic towards roger's case and I don't know I like it like you said I am hopeful I do think there's a lot of good energy behind this movement so it's not out of the realm of possibilities I think there's a good question. And look, think about it. So Roger was originally targeted by Clinton, right? So, I mean, it's one of those things where it's like, well, yeah, if every other president is going to try to steal your freedom, um it does make it a little bit you know can we get a little bit of

predictability here I mean why wouldn't he leave how could you leave I mean if your whole view was by the way just what is more patriotic than being a young entrepreneur selling firecrackers on the internet during the dot com boom how is that how is that even like shouldn't that be something that's an example look at this enterprising guy And so like it's even bizarre to me that that he got arrested for that. But, you know, I would think the question is, can you can we get it elevated? so that he hears about it who does he hear about it from I mean you know is he going to hear about it from some bitcoin maxi in the context or is he going to hear about it like tucker

carlson is he going to hear about it if he hears about it from enough people from enough oh did you hear about this guy oh did you hear about this guy who did this and this is what they're doing this is how they're persecuting him I think if we surround him so that that you know he's hearing it from multiple points then you know I think he'll be reasonable about it well um Donald Trump Jr. follows me on X and on Instagram. I typed out a long letter and sent it to him. Of course, I never heard back. Sebastian Gorka, who is now the... head of, I don't know, something, like deputy chief of intelligence or something like that. I don't even know. But he has followed me for a long time.

We've interacted frequently. And he sort of, the last interaction we had, he didn't like that I was being critical of Trump. But I did send him a letter too. And I, again, never heard back from either of these guys. So You know, we just have to keep the pressure up and sort of, you know, do as much as we can to bring attention to the issue. And, you know, like you said, it's like the political capital is there. He wants to be the guy. He's already taking credit. He's trying to take credit for ending the war on crypto. And like I said, he's really doing stuff that's not sort of meaningful. So if he does like takes a major step, like freeing Roger in the crypto six, like,

I commend him for getting rid of the sanctions on Tornado Cash and stopping a lot of the SEC bullshit, but like, hey, This is how you actually do it. let's go. On top of that, look... Rile up the base. You know, the IRS is the one on the other end of the stick here. So, you know, it's always politically popular to go after the IRS and to go against them. So, by the way, that's what he's doing, right? he's cut the workforce back. He's sort of, you know, So, hey, look, I'm going to end all these IRS lawfare cases as well. The political capital is there. You know, I don't really know what the holdup is here. I really don't because, you know, from a political strategy, it seems like a no brainer.

I don't I don't understand. I went to school for political strategy. That's what I was supposed to be. And I did it for a while. And you would think this to me, this is like a very easy one. Like, yeah, let's go free these guys. You can take credit for being, you know, the merciful pro crypto presidents, the innovation presidents and trying to draw new technologies to the country. And he's just missing the boat, unfortunately. I mean, pardoning Bitcoin Jesus seems like a win. If you're going to usher in the golden age and America is going to be dominant in Bitcoin and crypto, how can you do that while at the same time persecuting Bitcoin Jesus? It doesn't even make any sense.

So the only question is, is he just getting bad information from a select group of Bitcoin maxis? Because in reality, it's very much in his favor politically to pardon Roger. and to embrace Roger. I was unaware that he had so many maximalists in his circle. I know that Roger and the Winklevoss twins are well acquainted, but I don't know where that relationship stands because I think they're sort of like the... Trump respects money, and the Winklevoss twins have a lot of it. So I think he kind of takes his cues on crypto from not only his children, Eric and Don Jr., but also from... winklevoss twins now I know don jr spoke at the bitcoin

maxi conference that they have in miami so he might have been introduced to a lot of these uh you know toxic maximalist grifters like Jack Mauler. I don't know who he shared a stage with, but he might be being influenced by those people. I don't know, but I hope that eventually they're going to have to sort of... If we put enough pressure on and you keep this fast up, I mean, come on. We're going to blow this thing up. I'm going to post it everywhere. The more you post about it, I'm just going to repost it. I'm going to tag it on Instagram. I'll put it on Snapchat. We're going to get this out to as many people as possible. Well, that'd be great. And I think if we can build

internal momentum and then by the time, you know, again, however long this goes, I'm hoping to hear some, you know, like like tomorrow that, you know, it's over with and it's resolved because I'm sure they've got to have stuff going on behind the scenes. Right. It's not like that. There's not things going on. But but at the same time, you know, to me, once once the fast hits like you know, twenty one days, then we're in and then it becomes something that we'll gain even more like right now. I'm on day two. OK, well, but most people would be like oh he's not even gonna go through with it or whatever but you know like twenty one is days as gandhi numbers like that's actually the the longest

fast right gandhi did and I'm and I'm saying and by the way he would be the marketing if if we have to go this far uh jesus fasted forty days so the idea here is that this is a forty day fast to free bitcoin jesus I love it. That would be the theme of it if it has to go that far. You know, I prefer if it doesn't. But but I can. I do know what you know, I do know what the process is like. And so I do know I can I can do it. And I think it can help. bring awareness and again, hopefully all of this content and what I'm struck by is just like, and I appreciate the video that you did about Roger and some other people, Sterling Lujan did a clip and John Bush did a clip and I had a clip from

Jeffrey Tucker and from Joel and it's just amazing. you know, when I travel, just how everybody that Rogers interacted with, it's just been a really positive experience where he's either helped out or inspired them, or in some cases it was humanitarian and he's done it all privately behind the scene. He probably hates this, right? I mean, like, I'm sure he's like cringing. Cause I think he probably doesn't want, you know, all of this stuff that he's done necessarily being highlighted, but it it's, and he certainly wouldn't do it himself, but I think it helps him when people find out about all this. Yeah. Yeah, they have no idea. I mean, he's done... He's funded private cities,

different libertarian initiatives, so many crypto projects. I can't even... The original blockchain.info wallet, obviously, bitcoin.com. Like, cryptocurrencies earlier you mentioned all the that he was involved with, like, right off the bat. You know, I mean, if you want to... It's just... He's involved in so much and so many charitable things. You're right, though. He should really kind of like, at this point, if I were him, I'd be like, hey, I'm not a bad guy. Look at all the nice things that I've done because it sort of counters the narrative that he's some sort of tax evading criminal. He's like the most generous guy in the world. For people he doesn't even know or hasn't even met,

he doesn't care if it's going to cost him a hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars to stay in jail, he would happily pay it. But it's just not about the tax case. It's a lawfare case. And it's been going on, unfortunately, And somebody in the for a long time. administration has to step up and put a stop to it. Yep. Well, so sooner or later, again, the political capital will be the title shift and it'll be something that they have to deal with. And so, and I think we can pull that off. And so I, again, I I'm in the back of my mind, I'm visualizing, you know, being able to introduce Roger on the main stage at Porkfest and that, and that we are going to ignite two to three

thousand people to Zeno and privacy coins and tokenization. And we're just going to be not only talking about it, but like showing them and using it like that that is my like that vision that keeps me up uh you know yeah that motivates me uh that that that can happen because you know I saw it on a mini scale in this is even bigger this is like oh you know and then imagine you get ross there so I'm I'm jazzed and uh and I appreciate you you you motivated me I'm getting my ticket um I'm uh you know like I was already in talks with them about getting a table for the show but like yeah I'm absolutely gonna I'll take you up on that and I'm I'm pumped like because like I you know again it's like we

need that sort of hopeful spirit in the community again and I feel like we've lost it and that's what sort of zeno represents to me if we can get that's what sort of ross's presence would represent too right sort of again the sort of rebirth of the the early liberty movement and you know, to have Roger there, man, it would just be such a, such a memorable experience. I just hope we can make it all happen. You know, me too. Well, yeah. So yeah, happy to let you have a table. And if you want to use that, I have a coupon code daylight, you can get ten percent off the tickets. So I'm just over the pork fest ticket or for Rogers campground for the pork fest ticket. Okay. You know what?

I don't know. Maybe that extends to the campground. I got to look at that. What? Um, Actually, let me look at porkfest.com and see what it is. Have you been before? I mean, I went first. Oh, yeah. I was the chair of the Free State Project for a while. It's beautiful up there. Okay. Oh, no shit. And yeah, no, it is. It is beautiful. The first year I went was twelve, twenty twelve. And then I went from like twenty twelve to twenty fifteen. And then I twenty maybe twenty sixteen. And then I didn't go for a number of years until two years ago. And we definitely crossed paths at some point. I'm sure we must have. I think the campground stuff

is probably separate. You probably want to get on that soon. This says there's still a lot of tickets in stock. Is that old guy still running it? Is he still around? The older dude, remember? He was running the campground. I forget his name. The Rogers guy? Yeah. Yeah, it's still his. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Rogers guy. And in fact, I think the concern is if he dies or sells it, that's a problem. there have even been thoughts at I mean, various points in time of freestaters getting together and actually buying the campground. Because I will tell you, when I was on the board at one point, we started looking at other campgrounds. And it turns out other

campgrounds are not necessarily excited about the prospect of hosting this event. So, uh, we definitely want to keep, it is like Galt's Gulch. you know, it's like, I mean, I just, I remember I've given some talks and like, there's this Liberty one-on-one room. And as you're standing there looking at it, like just, it looks like this Galt's Gulch picturesque moment. Yeah, no, it's absolutely beautiful up there. It's God's country. No doubt. Yep. Yeah. So. And then we even took a ride out to Lincoln while we were there. And, uh, I mean, man, it was just, it's like something out of a postcard and something like over those white mountains and stuff like that. Like anybody who hasn't been

to Porkfest and they're serious about libertarians and they need to go because that is sort of the premier event in the libertarian world. And I didn't even know Zana was going to have a presence there. So that's just, man, I have to go now. Yeah, no, I've been working on it. So last year I was in the Goldback tent because I've done some work with the Goldback people and I got a tent. And so my son was there wearing actually a Roger shirt, free Roger shirt, because it was just after the Libertarian thing. And we had a Zeno banner and I was actually introducing people to Zeno and I was going around and showing people. And so that was kind of our first introduction. And then this year we

when the opportunity came. Well, actually the opportunity didn't come I actually, about. I first approached them because they only have two big tents, two big sponsors. And one of them was the Brownstone Institute and the other was Goldbacks. And so I'm friendly and work with both. And so I'm kind of like, well, maybe they'd let us have a third tent. Brownstone wasn't going to And then it turned out do it this year. So we ended up getting the Brownstone tent. So I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool. Awesome. Awesome. Hell yeah. Okay. I don't know if you've – have you So, yeah, met the Zeno people in person? You know, I've talked to them on Telegram. They sponsor the podcast.

I reached out to them, and they were very receptive. So I know a couple of the guys. I know Quentin and a lot of – some of the other people involved with the project. But, no, I've never actually met anybody in person. I'm pumped, though. You know what I really want to start doing is just kind of getting, like, some of the – like, some of the – just start making some stuff on the actual Zaino network that you were talking about, like actually start building on it and start making some of these solutions. I saw you posted something about a marketplace You had a tweet the other day about like, oh, imagine what could be. But like, is that actually done or is that being built?

What's the status of that? It's not done. This is actually something that I was toying with in like, was the idea of creating an alternative healthcare system that was used crypto as a payment mechanism. And I spent some time. And it turns out the biggest issue is you can't get doctors or people in healthcare to do it because they can't leave the confines of whatever their different than that this is structures but this is now medical tourism and everything else no one's building that healthcare focused one but there is uh there is someone working on a general marketplace and so you know hopefully that's going to progress pretty pretty quickly have have you heard of um I

think it's called dope token They might have changed their name to like... I think they might have channeled them. They might have changed their name to something, but essentially, John McAfee put me onto this years ago before they murdered him. He... He... I guess the idea was you allow these healthcare companies to have access or you allow this whatever to have access to your healthcare records. And in exchange, you get dope tokens. And these tokens can be exchanged for things like telehealth services and, you know, I don't know what else, you know, who knows.

But I thought that was an interesting concept at the time. And I don't think anything ever really came of it. And I think it kind of, the regulators got to it pretty quickly. But with Zeno, something like that is actually possible. And again, like the possibilities are absolutely endless with a coin like Zeno. It'll be done in a private fashion without anybody having to know about it. except like you and your healthcare supplier. So I don't know. I talked to two doctors at this event in New York because it was primarily a health freedom event. And they asked me, it's like, hey, would I be able to, could I accept this? Because I'm trying to move my practice. I want to start easing out

of this hospital setting. Is there any way I could do this? So there's, There is definitely, yeah, no, the possibilities are limitless. And for me with healthcare, the existing system is so broken. And again, I'll be talking about it over this fast because I'm really passionate about the healthcare issue just because of how, like if you started from scratch, when you look at, you couldn't possibly design something as bad as what we have. Like there's nothing about it that works. Insurance has nothing to do with market dynamics. they're basically a ward of the state. I mean, They don't have any, ability to set pricing. I mean, they make their money by being inefficient at processing

payments and denying bills. A marketplace would not allow, a free market would not allow a business like that to even exist. That would not work. And so, but you look at all of these alternatives and medical tourism and all of the different stuff that you could pull together. I mean, it would be massive and you can do that with Zaino. In fact, the example I used the other day as I saw an actual video of somebody who The cost of going to the dentist and getting wisdom teeth extracted in California was so high that it was cheaper for them to fly to Thailand for a week, spend a week in Thailand and get the procedure done there. That's how, and I put together a table that's like,

you can actually, the costs of medical tourism can be a reduction in cost as much as ninety eight percent. Like if you go to India, you can you can save ninety eight percent on like a forty thousand dollar surgery. Right, and you're going to get an Indian doctor in New York anyway. Exactly. But nobody even thinks of it being possible to go outside of the system. They're a lot of people's copay is higher than if they paid cash today, just directly because that's the because the providers are getting shafted by the insurance companies to the extent that they actually have cash flow problems in getting paid. So they'll take a fifty seventy percent discount if you pay cash up front today.

And so it's like so, you know, again, yeah, no, Zeno can revolutionize everything. I mean, there's so much. Yeah. so much you know I know um I know people who've traveled overseas for for operations and stuff like that also and you're right I mean the whole the whole healthcare market is just absolutely so I mean like if you could have something like zayna where you can facilitate something like that like a truly open market man be huge It can be huge. So, yeah, I think we're going to help. I think we're going to help, you know, really raise awareness. I'm glad that you are excited about this and talking about it, too, because I agree. We got to get out of the politics.

We just got to focus on solutions. Right. It's the only way. And they're there. And like the thing is, like, you know, like you said, they do how they get hijacked and the state sort of co-ops a lot of them. But, you know, we're going to constantly push back and we're constantly, you know, going to make a move and we're going to make two and that's that's what happens one step back two steps forward one step back three steps forward and you know at the end of the day they they their situation is unsustainable the market will always win and I think xeno is just a wonderful embodiment of that principle that whole idea uh it sort of does everything as we already talked about like it you

can tokenize absolutely anything I mean it can all be traded in a way that it can't be traced what else do you want on a coin you know um confidential layer. You can wrap up your transparent chains. I mean, it just, it does everything. Like you, like you said, like a marketplace for healthcare service. I mean, it is literally the future and we're in on it so early. I'm just so grateful to be part of it. And you know, that's when I reached out to them on X. I was like, you know, we're looking, we have like, we're looking for sponsors for the show. We have like room for two more. And they were like, boom, let's do it. Like the we're, we're super pumped. We're got, um,

all sorts of like merch and stuff like that and banners we're gonna have up for everybody. And man, to be part of it at Porkfest, it would just be the icing on the cake. Yep. Yeah, it's gonna be awesome. Again, so yeah, lining everything up, just Porkfest will be magical and literally we'll just kick off. Because if you think about, so I view like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, Well, look at what happened then. Right. So it went for and I look at like, all right, well, if I'm in, you know, twenty seventeen. Right. It's like the fourth quarter of twenty seventeen. And Microsoft is taking Bitcoin and Overstock is taking it. And everybody's talking about it's all exciting. And had it not gotten hijacked, obviously we'd be somewhere else. But we could completely generate that kind of energy again. except that's what we need to do. We can do, and we can, all of the pieces are in place. Like the tech is there and we got the venue. It was such a missed opportunity too at the time.

Like people don't even realize, like if you look in hindsight, like when we were experiencing all of that sort of, that sort of burst in adoption, especially retail adoption, like the fact that the, that it got hijacked and, and, just failed, the network congestion and whatnot, it was such a terrible missed opportunity for monetary freedom. It was a key focal point. And if we had listened to people like Roger, which is, of course, why they hijacked Bitcoin, then we wouldn't have been in that predicament in the first place. know that was part of their plan but again like I said you know they they make their move and guess what look okay fine five six it took us five six seven

years whatever it was but boom now we got xeno and uh we've learned from our mistakes this one they can't trace this one it's not sort of hijackable in the same way you know I really like the proof of stake mechanism like how it's sort of hybrid because you know any attempt to sort of conquer the network go ahead drive up the price make make my day you know Yeah, well, that was the thing about there are so many innovations that Zeno has that it's almost mind boggling. I mean, I was at the point when I first looked at it, I had this visceral reaction against proof of stake just because of historically and how it had been deployed by Ethereum and everything else.

And then when I looked into this, I'm like, wow, wait, this is brilliant. It's actually private proof of stake. So all of the issues. So you have kind of two problems with, well, more than two problems with proof of stake, like the way Ethereum does it. It's kind of like an oligarchy. I mean, to me, it's like Federal Reserve two point oh. So you've got to have a whole bunch to stake to be able to participate. And by the way, everybody can see who you are. This is like, okay, why is that a good idea? But then when you look at the fact that they've got a hybrid model and then it's private proof of stake and anybody can stake regardless of how little Zeno they have. Wow, like that's actually,

that's an innovation. And now we have privacy tokens on top of that. Even things like that, you know, they have a dev fund, which there are people that push back on this. This is one of the things that, you know, I'm going to bring, Andre and Pavel on to do a podcast, but I want to wait until I go through it and actually can put together, because what I want to do is I want to have visuals so that when we're doing the clips of it, it's like, okay, because these are complicated concepts to discuss. But when you go through it and you look at the hybrid proof of work, proof of stake, security model of the it's more secure than these other models. And the way that they-

Yeah, and the way that they funded it with, yeah, they've got a dev fund. And there are a lot of people like, oh, well, they've got a dev fund. It's not, you know, well, Bitcoin doesn't have a dev fund. Yeah, Bitcoin doesn't have a dev fund and it got hijacked. You know, and, you know, MIT and Jeffrey Epstein and Joy Ito funded it. And then BlackRock or excuse me, a block stream with their ties to the Bilderberg group. It's like, yeah, that's what happens when you don't have a dev fund. Then you end up with some guy paying from the intelligence agency, paying fifteen hundred dollars to help implement a cap and trade system. Bitcoin isn't the model for how to do it.

Bitcoin is the model for how not to do it. And they've actually implemented a structure where they can take the dev funds and they're staking actually have ongoing development funds. the dev funds so they What a novel concept, right? It's not going to prevent entrepreneurs and innovators from building tools on top of what the dev fund is doing. No, no, not at all. This always comes down to people. I've gotten to work with and talk to Andre and Pavel and it's like they're very accommodating. They want to work on projects. They're open. They're helping me with karma. They're actually actively helping me figure out how to get it up and running. That's exciting, man.

When I first learned about that, it actually blew my mind. I'm like, oh my God, this is freaking huge. A gold-backed stable coin that is traded in in a private fashion that's a game changer that is a that's like a a key feature right there man it is and so I so again I'm being careful about how to draw this is why when I talk about stable coins part of this is I'm I by the way I'm calling it a gold backed token right just because the way these people oh you called it a stable coin so you know whatever but Um, it actually still works within their stupid rules that they set up because I'm not, it's not a stable, like one karma will equate a certain amount of gold and physical amount of gold.

It's not, I'm not tying it to the dollar per se, the amount of like mechanics to go on to try to like, we work and weave through this, but But yeah, imagine a gold-backed privacy coin that's separate from state. Yeah, that's a big opportunity. Revolutionary. That's revolutionary. And I've had people say, well, you've got legal risk. algorithmic-backed stablecoin? Why don't you just do an you're missing a whole variety of I'm like, points here. And it's like the market absolutely wants this. I mean, by the way, G. Edward Griffin likes this idea. you can imagine like this bridges... I mean, obviously, you know people that have have been afraid to get into crypto because they

didn't understand the volatility to people that are gold bugs and people that are crypto and and privacy it's like yeah it's a it's a and like we were talking earlier merchants who uh who are hesitant or reluctant to accept cryptocurrency because it's volatile all of a sudden like boom trade it back into your karma now yet now it's now it's just you know tied to a certain amount of gold like you said it's a beautiful thing So I've got anyway, there are a couple of ideas and things that if they line up, it will absolutely hyper accelerate growth because it involves, you know, rolling it out in a marketplace. It is merchant driven and everything else. But there was a bit of a

setback because there was a kind of a dream scenario where if it had all lined up, it would have been almost too good to be true. But it's not. There's there's a plan B and a plan C. And we will. we will get it done but yeah no it is it is it is exciting and just yeah now the tokenization application so so uh anyway between now and yeah confidential when was what's the timeline with this Because I know that you had said that everything was sort of complete, all the work was done. It was just a matter of being released. Do you have any idea what that timeline looks like? Because that's another thing. I can't wait to shove it into Maxi's face. I traded Bitcoin privately today.

I can see your transaction, though. actually making transactions, though. Although they're not So who am I kidding? Yeah, exactly. You're the one. So my understanding is that the tech is done. It's about market timing for how to release it. I don't know the details behind that, but my understanding is the tech is up, They've got the nodes. working. They've got the things set up. you need a point of sale But there again, system or a marketplace where people can actually spend their tokenized Bitcoin. Right. Now, have you noticed this sort of... Surprising antagonism from the Monero community? Yeah.

So I'm co-sponsoring the tent with Monerotopia and with Doug Tooman. Doug is very diplomatic, but a lot of the Monero heads are sort of maximalists, I've learned, through my Zano posting on X and Instagram. I have a suspicion, and I don't know if this is true or not, because it wasn't an issue. Because I've been to Monerotopia. I've been on Doug's show. I know a lot of Monero people. And I hadn't encountered any issues until there's this one guy involved with WowNero. uh who who created wow narrow who who hates zeno for some reason and he I mean he actually went to monero and gave a whole

talk and he was trying to claim that it was a scam or whatever my suspicion though is that fluffy pony uh he's launching after six and a half years allegedly his company tarry and so I actually think that it's fake This contentiousness against Zeno, it all of a sudden developed from people that were very aware of Zeno for a long time. And they're just now all of a sudden bringing... I think it's manufactured. I think it's related to Tariq. That's my... I don't have any data to support that. Other than people that I know that were... all I've been doing is talking about Zeno for, for months.

And that were like, people started unfollowing that, that were part of this group. And there's like this narrative shift. And, um, but I don't think it's most of the Monero community. I think it's like a handful of people. And I bet we're going to find at the end of the day that the handful of people might, might turn out to be related to this other project. Cause most of them is good. I think. Well, I just had Doug on my show. And obviously, I've been a longtime supporter of Monero, as you can see. But, like, the whole idea that, you know, I posted something about Zeno. I just got a bunch of Monero comments. And I thought to myself, like...

you know, I thought this toxic maximalism was, you know, they sort of bore the brunt of it from the Maxis for a while, the Monero community. So, you know, they pushed back against it, and now they're the ones who are sort of doing it to Zeno, which is kind of crazy. But, yeah, I must have gotten at least ten, fifteen comments from people in the Monero community complaining about Zeno, and it's just like, why can't everybody coexist, you know? And that's what I said to Doug, and he's like, yeah, there's no reason why we can't. And it should coexist. I mean, this is so in my book and in my talks and where I got really frustrated with this is I'm like, guys, you know, the US CBDC can do one

point eight million transactions per second. First of all, the idea that we think that there should be a single coin is is ridiculous, conceptually ridiculous. But on top of that, there can't be a single coin based on what we're competing against. We have to actually work together. And, you know, to the extent that Zaino is about tokenizing other assets, the example that I use is it's like, okay, you have CBD. From the technocrats perspective, they're working towards a global CBDC backed by energy credits and then centrally tokenizing all the assets. Well, in a parallel free structure, you need a privacy coin and you need privacy tokens. Monero doesn't do privacy tokens.

So it's a hundred percent complimentary. And this is why what leads me to believe it's related to this Tari project, because the Tari project is supposed to have, which it hasn't after six and a half years. It's been a flop as a project, right? Like literally they've taken seventy million dollars of venture capital and they have not released a product in six and a half years. But when you read the marketing materials, the marketing materials claim they're going to have second layer solutions and they're going to be able to do tokenization. And so that's why I think that all of a sudden and it's actually just been in the last like ninety days and there was you know there was some

issues back and forth with this and uh you know we're monerocon at porkfest uh actually live streaming but it's in the morning based on the time zone thing but you know prior to you know the last ninety days actually the the relationship between the communities was actually you this is one of the pretty strong and I'll tell things that I love about the Zeno guys. So Andre, so the lead developer of Monero, as you know, I mean, they, like he worked with Nicholas von Saberhagen and like created the crypto note, the underlying technology. My understanding is, More of Andre, he has more of the code than any developer in Monero that's actively being used in Monero,

right? But he's at Monerotopia and he's like, he's sitting there taking notes and having active conversations and trying to collaborate with the Monero guys on, hey, is this the best tech? They're sharing ideas back and forth. He's not going there being tribalistic in any way, shape, or form. seen from the hardcore Zeno The only thing that I've team is an interest in the truth and getting the best technology and being collaborative. And that's one of the best features. And so, but by the way, Luke Parker, who's the kind of the top dev now at Monero, he has a good relationship with the Zeno guys. So this is why you have to really kind of like filter out and say,

where is this noise really coming from? And what is this all about? Because it doesn't speak to the whole Monero community. It doesn't even speak to some of the top developers within Monero. So yeah. It could be like another sort of agitation for a civil war in a sort of more niche space within the crypto community amongst privacy enthusiasts, you know? Well, it's either that or it's like a Bitcoin hijacking. It could be a deep state thing. It could be a deep state thing all over again. And this is why the approach that I've taken, because there's been a lot of back and forth. And I'm like, look, I like Doug. I want to collaborate with him. I want to continue. I want to go to Moneratopia

again next year. I want to continue to collaborate. And I hope that we... we work together on actually uh calling out if there are bad actors that are trying to infiltrate that we don't get tribal and that we actually more focus on hey what's actually going on here and really drill into it because we can't let this get the only thing that I would say before is the markets do win unless they get hijacked by deep state actors so we got to make sure that doesn't happen we just have to be just overly rigorous about it um That's what I like about Zeno is that it sort of has a lot of built-in mechanisms to sort of prevent against that. And that sort of kind of gives me, you know, Satoshi vibes.

Yeah, no, it does. It was very thoughtful. And, you know, it took me a long time to... I mean, there's more to understand and there's more being developed. But, I mean, it... this is one of those projects where you have multiple aha moments, not just one. Oh, I know. It's just like it's an ongoing, oh, oh, wait, then I combine the opportunities with this. It's like, wow, okay, this is... Wait until it hits the broader crypto community, let alone the general public. I mean, the general public is so far away from just... understanding the Cambrian explosion and what is on the verge of happening. Most people in crypto don't understand what's going on. We were talking about all

Most people in crypto, the different applications. you said you made a list of like, fifty of them. Most people can't list five to ten. They say NFTs or something like that. I don't even know. So the idea of actually using the tokens in a way that sort of creates more freedom and sort of like I said, we saw earlier how you can open up these capital markets with, you know, tokenizing securities and assets. the possibilities are absolutely endless. I mean, And Xano is the sort of tool that finally brings it all together and ties everything together and makes it all happen. So. Well, so in on it so early. Well, and again, for me, the part of it was there's

but it's also the fact that you're right. the opportunity, they don't even have five or ten. Most people, Most people in crypto only have at most two, and it's NFTs and meme coins. That's actually almost all anybody knows. But the problem is that there will be a tocambrion explosion but based on how it's going right now in the absence of xeno it's going to be cbdc like this is why we have to there needs to be a sense of urgency from from kind of our community to say yeah we have the potential to to do xeno and if we don't do xeno this is the alternative because there isn't an alternative where we don't get tokens So now it's just a choice. So we should have like a profound sense of urgency

about getting this adopted in the marketplace as quickly as possible, because if we don't, you know, these people aren't going to be number go up in a world with BlackRock centrally controlled tokenization of assets. It's actually even designed for us to not own anything by the way that they've changed the legal agreements underlying the tokens and everything else this is how we end up getting fleeced of all of our assets and so there's a lot at stake here and it's complicated to it this is why I try to outline it hopefully again over this fast I'll have even more clarity I'm going to pump out a lot of content on this um Everything will be tokenized. If we allow the state to facilitate that,

it'll be another missed opportunity. Just like we were talking earlier about how we missed the opportunity when in twenty seventeen with Bitcoin's potential for retail adoption, it'll be another missed opportunity. And that's why Zeno needs to get as many people to to have this sort of aha moment as possible. So I think it's something that I'll definitely be pushing more and more of over the next coming months. I'll have more and more content about this myself because I mean, every show on my stream, we do a whole segment about Zeno and what's going on in Zeno. So, you know, I don't know. It's just, at this point, it almost seems like it's our only hope, frankly. Every other project has sort

of been sort of hijacked or just, it hasn't been hijacked and it's you know, just failed at this point. Like, you know, I don't know. Although Ethereum, that Ethereum has been you can even make the case hijacked at this point as well. And it's always the ones with disruptive potential, right? That's the ones who they try to go after, which is why, of course, your theory about Monero would make so much sense. Yeah, so maybe I'm wrong, but at the same time, this is the kind of stuff we just have to agree to call out and then acknowledge, again, Roger... So I'm trying to learn from, so what do we learn from Roger? So we're free speech, and I don't wanna use their tactics. I don't wanna get into

propaganda and censorship, but let's look at what happened. So how do we prevent that from happening? And it's happening now, right? It's still happening. I mean on the bitcoin front it's the the propaganda and censorship is still there I mean obviously we launched xeno but how do we but that doesn't solve the the question of of you know what could have been that could anything have been done differently to prevent hijacking bitcoin I read the black uh what is the black size wars I think it's that that's the other the other book that's kind of the other view the more pro small blocker book although when I read it I actually saw that there was some agreement I actually read that book and they

basically said well the big blockers weren't necessarily wrong but they got outsmarted tactically that was what kind of the takeaway that I got from from that book which it's like okay even if they got outsmarted tactically we ended up in the worst place we ended up with a with a bad outcome and that's what it practically by cia agents Yeah. So, so what do we, so what do we do? What do we like, what if the various people are trying to infiltrate the Minero and cause a schism and they have, I mean, it's created some disruption. We're working our way through it. And like the Zeno, the Zeno is not a tribal project and they're going to take kind of that principled high ground. But how do we,

how do we make sure that this doesn't happen? Like what, what could we learn from the process? Well, again, that's why I love this proof of stake, proof of work hybrid model. Because again, like you said, I initially had the same reaction. I thought, man, proof of stake, inherently oligarchic. And then I started actually gaming it out of my head. I'm like, wait, this actually makes sense. Because like you said, anybody can stake. It's sort of a much more open and transparent process. So I think it sort of fixes a lot of the problems that a lot of us had. This hybrid model is sort of I think is sort of the protection that we need against the sort of hijacking of cryptocurrency.

They can't really hijack it. You think about it in theory in this way, because if they just try to buy up more and more of the network, it's just going to make the coin more valuable. Yep. Yeah, and at this point, the beauty of this project is it's been around for five years, right? And so if you were in Zeno in the last five years, you were in it for ideological purposes. No one was in speculating on Zeno. So you basically have people that understood and are hardcore about the importance of privacy and understand tokenization. Well, I mean, so this isn't like the CIA wasn't in on that. They weren't in on that. Like, look at the effect. And, like, this is what I try telling people.

Like, follow innovation. Follow disruption. Don't chase, you know, don't speculate. Go with coins that actually do something. If they have a utility, then stay away from them. And lo and behold, Zayn was one of the top performing coins last year. I just saw the metrics today. I forget all of them in front of me. But we were, like, Zayn was, like, I don't know, top performance. and top twenty coins performing last year um so you know this year everything's taking a hit from the tariffs and um all sorts of bullshit going on in the market with you know all sorts of other nonsense unrelated but you know uh a matter of time till till uh you know I I truly

believe hundred dollars they know is inevitable it's gonna happen a lot quicker than people think so don't be surprised if those financial speculators that we're concerned about do show up at the watering well sometime soon you know Well, I mean, it's the market cap is still under a hundred million dollars. And I know when Roger reached out to me, I think the market cap is like twenty five million. I'm like, how is this even possible? This is a twenty five million dollar market cap. Like this is like what? So it's still under a hundred million dollars. So I don't think people are appreciating like it's whatever, three hundred percent. The opportunity is massive relative to the market size

that can be addressed and the utility. I mean, yeah, no, it's going to be a surprise for a lot of people. And yeah, last year was big. I think some people got upset because the price was appreciating. But, you know, it is, I mean, whatever. It's still only a hundred million dollar market cap. The market cap of Monero is like, I don't know, whatever it is, we'd have to go at some point. I thought it was like two hundred and forty dollars or something to have an equivalent market cap for saying, you know, I might be wrong on that, but it's it's a huge it's a huge step up. So, yeah, no people. And I think a lot of the people that are getting into it are still getting

into it from a long-term perspective. Because at least if they're people, I've introduced a lot of people to Zeno, like a ton of people. But everybody that I talk to knows that, because people are, what should I invest in? What should I speculate on? I'm like, this is the investment that you make if you want an alternative. This is the hedge against digital tyranny. This is what this is. This is the application for this. I mean, the market cap is small, but I mean, the use case is... It does something. I spend no time... I've never bought a meme coin. I don't care if people invest in meme coins, but time is the most precious thing. How am I going to... Am I going to spend my time what...

becoming an insider on when a rug pull is going to happen with a meme coin. Why would I spend my time on that? I mean, maybe I could make, I could make Fiat, but then for what purpose? Cause we're still living in a tier. If that's where I'm spending my time and I could spend it on something that could actually promote privacy and promote freedom, then that's, then that's a misallocation of time. We're not going to end up in a way. It's crazy to think Solana is going to be in their, their strategic reserve just because, you know, they've gotten popular through massive rug pulls. Like, Like, maybe that's what we should do. You want us to steal your money? Fine. Like,

if that's what we have to do to get this shit adopted, give me your money. I don't care. Yeah, I know. Crazy. It's crazy. Bonkers. I got to get going, bro. It's getting late for me over here. I'm on the East Coast. Where are you at? Yeah, I'm on the East Coast. I'm in New Hampshire. Oh, okay. Okay. And are you near the Rogers in the north, or are you down south towards Mass? Yeah, I'm down south, unfortunately. I'm near the border. So it's a couple-hour drive. It's not really that big. It's a beautiful drive, so I actually don't even mind. It's a beautiful time of the year. That's actually an enjoyable experience. Yeah. It's literally one of the most beautiful places I've been.

I can't wait to see you up there, man. We can definitely continue this conversation and do everything we can. I'll definitely take you up on all those different... I've got some good ideas. We should collaborate more. I'll shoot you a DM about setting stuff up for Porkfest. We'll make some Glocks up there live on site. We can start pretty printing Glocks. That's awesome. I love it. Let's do it. And we're like, we're just now planning the tent and the programming. And so any ideas you have, any people you want to bring in, like it's, it's wide open. We control what we want to do with this. And so let's just, let's make this the amazing. And I appreciate you coming out. You can come on anytime.

Again, I'm doing this every night until, you know, Rogers Rogers out. So, you know, anytime you want to hop on here, I'm going to be doing this for a long time. So, You're doing the Lord's work, my friend. I will. I'll take you up on that as well. Awesome. All right. Well, have a great night. I appreciate you hopping on. You got it, brother. I'll see you, man. Have a good one. All right. Talk to you soon. Bye.